Can anyone identify the prototype for this mystery loco???

Fitzroy

Western Thunderer
I'm restoring a gauge 1 loco from, dating, based on the motor and drivetrain, the late 1920s/early thirties. It's a 2-4-2 tank, looks a little like LYR or maybe GE. The combination of Belpaire firebox and funny spectacle plates has me stumped though.

Seems a combination of solid early work and later bodging. The motor looks like early Leeds or Milbro with a horseshoe magnet and fabric insulated armature windings so very early for a permag. The motor and drivetrain are fully floating with all wheels sprung. The motor would have been for O gauge.

Thoughts, anyone?IMG_7972.jpgIMG_7973.jpgIMG_7974.jpgIMG_7975.jpgIMG_7976.jpg
 

simond

Western Thunderer
Neither do I but there are a few diagnostic features!

"sad eyes" cab windows (Southern?)
wheel and lever for the smokebox door (LNWR ?)
Belpaire firebox (GW and many others)
wheel reverser
side mounted clacks - not top feed
flat footplate

and it's a 2-4-2, you say.

lovely chimney!
 

40057

Western Thunderer

Photos 2&3 here look similar?
But round-topped firebox and round front cab windows.

The more I look at it, the more I’m thinking ‘freelance’

I assume it’s three rail or stud contact? Any trace of any former liveries or lettering? Any provenance? It might be possible to trace the model back to some well-known Gauge 1 line, but knowing something about where it came from would help with that.
 

Overseer

Western Thunderer
It looks like a good model of an LMS G6 boiler. The wheel on the smokebox looks Irish. The cab front windows look like Jinty windows rotated. Has someone started with a LMS Jinty model or kit and altered it to resemble another railways 2-4-2T?
 
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Fitzroy

Western Thunderer
Well, I'm glad you all have your thinking caps on! Thank you for all the suggestions so far. You could well be right about freelance- the spectacles are stumping me but I have a feeling I have seen similar ones somewhere where round ones interfered with a later Belpaire firebox and got modified- I think L&YR did something similar but only on tender engines that I am aware of. I initially thought it might have been a L&YR loco later in life but not so sure now. I suspect later in life a lot of engines received Belpaire fireboxes on rebuild but not necessarily well documented.

Matt, it is very similar to photo 2 on the Watford and limerick. There were very similar locos here in Melbourne that started life as 2-4-2's and became 0-6-2's later in life. I think both Vulcan and Beyer Peacock churned very similar ones out.

The chimney is a red herring, it's a Walsall one I have fitted- the original one was awful and badly made- looked like a cotton reel.

The colour is dark green, no other markings or number. The front coupling is a very weird arrangement- has anyone seen anything like that? It adds a certain Colonel Stephens dodginess to it.

The setup is three rail with a Bassett-Lowke spoon pickup.

The motor runs or ran when I last tested it, no leading or trailing wheels and horn guides etc all somewhat bent etc. Likewise the loco had been dropped at some point but I have now straightened that damage.

I was hoping the backhead might give some clues.

Any other ideas? I am trying to get to a point where I can fix or remake remaining boiler fittings, spring hangers etc and decide on a livery. The final aim is to push and pull around various Carette and Bing for B-L coaches and wagons now that I have a small length of B-L track- literally the Gauge 1 version of 40057's wooden sleepered track.
 

Fitzroy

Western Thunderer
Overseer, it's definitely not a kit. Everything is handmade from heavy brass plate and screwed together with countersunk 10BA screws or soldered with lashings of plumber's solder. Much very well done, and some appallingly badly done.
 

Fitzroy

Western Thunderer
Oh and Mike, it's not a Rocket motor. I have have a big and small Rocket motor, and they are both much smaller than this one. This is very similar to a B-L horseshoe motor but with silk, not varnish, armature winding insulation. So about as early as you can get for a Permag.
 

76043

Western Thunderer
I think it's freelance, sure there's something Irish in the smokebox, but most products of this era seemed to be freelance. It's a product of its time and shouldn't necessarily be looked upon with our quest for scale eyes.

The UK's most mass produced loco was apparently the Dublo N2 at 250k, but Dublo never called it an N2 in any of the publicity or on the boxes. It was always called the 0-6-2 tank. It wasn't quite an N2 as we know.
Tony
 
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