Building a Caledonian Pug in S Scale

JimG

Western Thunderer
An excellent thread Jim :)
Thanks for taking the time to show the amount of work that goes into producing a set of wheels, its an eye opener for me to see all of the individual steps you've gone through before you've even got a finished wheel to show for it - I have no doubt that the finished wheels will justify the effort we've seen though :thumbs:

Steve,

I keep getting wild thoughts about making the loco live steam (as the late Alan Cruikshank considered many years ago) - influenced by a thread not a million miles from here. :):) But maybe I'll leave that for the next one. :)

Jim.
 

JimG

Western Thunderer
fascinating stuff there Jim, very envious of your work.

Mike,

I hope to start on the six wheels soon although I might wait for a bit until the weather has cooled down. I've just had a look at the weather forecast and it looks like there is not going to be much change for the next ten days. :) I could make a start on milling the six centres since that requires little physical effort on my part. :)

Jim.
 

JimG

Western Thunderer
More progress - but halted. :)

498Wheel50.jpg

I've started cutting out the six wheels for the locomotive and most of the shaping has been done. But I broke my one remaining 0.4mm cutter when part way through shaping the balance weights so things have ground to a halt until I get some more cutters - hopefully by Tuesday. The problem was my fault in not allowing for a small area of higher waste and the 0.4mm cutter was ploughing into this at the start of its cut. I had actually heard the bit of rough cutting and had started to investigate when the cutter went "Ping" on the third wheel centre. :) The code has been re-written to make life easier for the cutter. :)

Jim.
 

3 LINK

Western Thunderer
Hi Jim,

Enjoying this thread of yours, makes great reading :thumbs: .

When you say you have re-written the code, are we talking slower movement ( not speed ) or less depth of cut on each cycle?

All the best,

Martyn.
 

JimG

Western Thunderer
When you say you have re-written the code, are we talking slower movement ( not speed ) or less depth of cut on each cycle?

Martyn,

I altered the depth of cut. The small amount of waste was at the level of the central boss and the cutter was cutting 0.1mm below the level of the balance weight surface which itself was 0.2mm below the central boss. So it was an 0.3mm cut through this small piece of waste at a corner and that was pushing my luck for a 0.4mm cutter running at the speeds my machine can manage. They should be run at maybe 15,000 - 25,000 rpm and my maximum is 7,000rpm. I run at a combination of small depths of cut and slower feed rates to get round the problem and in this case I altered tghe depth of cut which should be fine with the feed rate.

Jim.
 

3 LINK

Western Thunderer
Hello Jim,

I just find this a fascinating part of model engineering, most of it is too complex for my brain to comprehend :confused: but I do get the gist of things ;).

Martyn.
 

JimG

Western Thunderer
Progress, in a way. :)

I got the replacement cutters on Tuesday and got round to picking up where I left off on Wednesday but ran into a problem. I was dealing with the six separate wheel centres with one set of CNC files and moving from one centre to another by offsetting X and Y values for each file. Somewhere either me, or the machine, must have c*cked things up and I noted that the new 0.4mm cutter didn't seem to be cutting where it should. I did a trial cut of the spokes on one centre which confirmed that things were not correct. So I had to start all over again. :):)

498Wheel51.jpg

The dodgy centres are to the left, and the new set are on the right, with one mounted on a holding stub before starting on shaping the spokes.

For any future multiple wheel cutting I'm going to revise my methods to minimise the possibility of errors - more than likely mine rather than the machine's. :)

Jim.
 

JimG

Western Thunderer
Well I got there in the end. :)

498Wheel54.jpg

Yet another set of centres had to be made.:) I had been using the same methods to cut the centres as I had when cutting coach sides in Plastikard and bits and piece for the crane. But these methods could accrue a few thou here and there which were not a great problem for coach side construction and the like. But I was looking for much more accuracy for the wheel centres - particularly the depth of the bosses on the rear of the wheels which would be part of the spacing for wheel sideplay in the locomotive - and I wasn't getting sufficient accuracy for that.

So I went back and did a full audit of my setting up process and decided to cut another set of centres with a more accurate way of setting up and they came out much more accurate. They are still not perfect, but they are pretty close and much better than the earlier set (I'm remembering that the first set are still incomplete on the brass plate :) and I've worked out a way to achieve better accuracy for the next set of wheels I do.

498Wheel53.jpg

Big piles of steel swarf after machining the six tyres - it took a while to clean the lathe up especially since I was using neat cutting oil and that tends to get things clogged up a bit.

498Wheel55.jpg

And the evidence trail :) , with all the holes in the plate and the unwanted set of centres top right. I've located a cheaper supplier for the brass 10G clock plate so any empirical modelling can be done with a bit less expense in future. :)

Now onwards and upwards with the loco chassis - which will be split insulation with full CSB suspension.

Jim.
 

ScottW

Western Thunderer
The wheels look superb Jim, and a credit to all your hard work. :thumbs: Looking forward now to seeing you progress with the chassis.

I recently had my own problems producing bogie wheels for my 439. After a bit of advice from Trevor I made another set with much more success. I will eventually get round to updating my thread with the details, and hopefully some 'work in progress' notes for the Gazette.

Scott
 

JimG

Western Thunderer
The wheels look superb Jim, and a credit to all your hard work. :thumbs: Looking forward now to seeing you progress with the chassis.

Scott,

I've actually been wondering why it has been taking me so long. :) I used to reckon that I could turn out six driving wheels over a full weekend when I was cutting spokes out by hand. I know that the turning on the Cowells lathe takes longer than on my ML10 because I can take bigger cuts on the ML10 and I can work it faster than the Cowells. But the main time is working out how to use the CNC mill and doing all the CAD and CAM work necessary, and how to hold the work when cutting - that can be a right puzzle some times with some mini disasters along the way. :) But I'm trying to work things out so that I can re-use the methods for future work which should make them much quicker operations.

I'm hoping to cut the frames with the CNC mill. I started the CAD work a day or two ago but I've decided to drill all the holes required on the initial cutting, which means I've had to design all the brake gear to work out where the pivot holes should be, and I'm now working on the cylinders and the rear sandboxes to work out how I'm going to fit them to the frames. I'm also intending to machine the hornguides and I have to work out how to do that on the KX1. :) The old days of build and design as you go could be a fair bit faster. :)

Jim
 

ScottW

Western Thunderer
I saw from the Caley website that you were having problems obtaining an accurate drawing of the pug, did you manage to find one? My initial thought was to ask Jim Smellie but I'm sure that was your first point of call.

Scott
 

JimG

Western Thunderer
I saw from the Caley website that you were having problems obtaining an accurate drawing of the pug, did you manage to find one? My initial thought was to ask Jim Smellie but I'm sure that was your first point of call.

Scott,

The closest I got was a copy of a 4mm scale Skinley drawing from Jim Watt which looks pretty close to what I can work out from the selection of pictures I have got. It has some obvious mistakes which I can correct, and I have a GA of the 782 class, which was the larger tank loco of the period, which has a lot of common features with the 498 class. I also obtained the original detail drawings of the wheels and the cylinders from Glasgow University (who run the CRA archive) which I mentioned earlier. So I can get the cylinders exactly correct. :)

I did try contacting Jim Smellie but I had to do it via his web site and I didn't get a response. I'll have to wait till he makes some more posts to the CRA forum so that I can try contacting him that way. But the drawing on the 498 class PDF on his web site looks very much like a tracing from the Skinley drawing.

I'm now making my own drawing based on what I've got. I'm looking at using the CNC mill to cut out a lot of the parts so it will have to be a bit more than a basic line drawing. I'm working on the frames at the moment and I'm having to work out all the cylinder, brake gear and sandbox details so that I can drill or machine holes to mount them. I'm also having to work out how I'm going to hold some of the parts for machining - this I find almost the steepest learning curve with a CNC mill. :)

Jim.
 

JimG

Western Thunderer
Now that I'm moving on to the rest of the ;loco, I've changed the title to reflect that.

While working on the preparation for making the frames, I started looking at the cylinders to try and work out how I was going to fix them to the frames. I'm hoping to make a cylinder and slidebar assembly so that the assemblies can be completed off the frames, then fitted to the frames.

While pondering all the possibilities I was also looking at the detailing of the cylinders - especially the front cover with its shaped centre and the very obvious eighteen 1" Whitworth nuts holding the cover on, which were not hidden. At the same time, Mick was discussing the representation of nuts and bolts on his standard cab and I started trying to work out how I would do the nuts on the covers. Richard (Dikitriki) pointed me at the Scale hardware products but of their two smallest products, one was just too small and the other was just too big. I could have taken a punt on either the smaller or the larger and hoped that whichever would have looked OK. But fitting the Scale Hardware nuts on bolts would require drilling 0.3mm or 0.5rmm holes and that required yet another search to find a source of drills at a cost I could stand. :)

I then remembered something I had done a year or so ago - machining wagon strapping including bolt heads - to prove something in a discussion with Simon Dunkley. I can't remember which thread it was, so can't find the discussion, but the memory was enough to get me starting to think about milling the lot in one go - and here's the result.

PugCylinderCover00.jpgPugCylinderCover00A.jpg

PugCylinderCover00B.jpg

The excerpts from two pictures and the extract from the cylinder GA shows the front cylinder cover details. Dougal Drummond liked his shaped pistons and the Caledonian kept the design - the pug class was designed and built more than twenty years after he left the Caledonian.

First I turned up brass blanks as bases for the cutting.

PugCylinderCover01.jpg
The widest diameter is the outside diameter of the cover, the next diameter of 8mm will fit in a 8mm hole in the cylinder body. The long 6mm diameter is to hold in the machine vice and this will be cut off after machining.

PugCylinderCover021.jpg

The blank held in the machine vice with a 2mm Plastikard spacer under it. This spacer lets me touch off for setting the tool height to the bottom of the cover outer diameter and also gives a "soft" base in case a cutter goes a bit deep.

PugCylinderCover03.jpg

The 2mm cutter doing the first cuts - basically the rough shaping of the protruding centre and the height to the top of the nuts and studs.

PugCylinderCover04.jpg

The result after the 2mm cutter has finished, with a rough cut of the centre shape beginning to show.

PugCylinderCover05.jpg

After the 1mm diameter cutter has finished, with the recess around the central shape deepened and the outside edge has also been milled true.

PugCylinderCover06.jpg

The o.5mm cutter has started to cut the nuts and studs.

PugCylinderCover07.jpg

The 0.5mm cutter has finished leaving just the central shape to be finished with the 0.6mm ball end cutter.

PugCylinderCover08.jpg

The finished result. The apparent roughness around the nuts is actually reflections of the milled surface finish. I'll try and get a better shot in daylight tomorrow. I might look at making the height increments on the finishing cuts of the 0.6mm ball end cutter a bit smaller to reduce the ridging effect which you get with these cutters - which is apparent on the central shape.

The nuts are 0.61mm across flats and the diameter of the cover is 9.13mm, to give you some idea of the sizes. I'm not sure how they will survive under a coat of paint. :)

I've also just realised that there was a cover over the deeper part of the recess. I've actually machined the seatings for the cover but I reckon I'll change the code and machine the cover in situ - it will make the machining a bit shorter. :)

Jim.
 

Dikitriki

Flying Squad
That's awesome. Truly outstanding work. I would not have thought it possible to get such angular definition where the nuts abut the cover.

Wow!

Richard
 

AndyB

Western Thunderer
The nuts are 0.61mm across flats
Jim - that's a very impressive piece of work!.
I'm curious though - did the Caledonean use non-standard nuts?
From what I've found out about Whitworth nuts, they were based on standard hexagon bar sizes.
The original A/F size for 1"W was 1.67" - 26 thou or 0.66mm in 1/64 scale.
Under the British standard, the A/F size for 1"W was reduced to 1.48" - 23 thou or 0.59mm in 1/64 scale. (every thread under the BS used the A/F size from the next smaller thread in the old standard).

Regarding the central ridging - I guess you could just put it back in the lathe and polish them out.

Andy
 

JimG

Western Thunderer
That's awesome. Truly outstanding work. I would not have thought it possible to get such angular definition where the nuts abut the cover.

Wow!

Richard,

I have to confess that the nuts came out a lot better than I had hoped. My initial tests used Plastikard and the definition of the nuts was a bit "woolly" to say the least. I expected brass to be better, but not as good as occurred.

Jim.
 
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