Breaking Ground - Finescale - of a sort

[Richard Insole]

Hello all...

I have created a new thread as I didn't want to take over Dad's thread with 'Finescale - of a sort', as this is where he keeps his posts regarding the little engine. So... Onto what this tread is for.

You may have seen that in the last posts on Dad's thread, I posted about progress with the first length of rail.




Well.. after a lot of head-scratching and sole searching, we prooved that you could in fact use UPVC trims as a rail with oodles of adhesion. This was the plan, to source more and start breaking ground with the line up the garden. But... even with proof of concept, did we want to commit to this plan?

To be continued...

 

[Richard Insole]

... Continued...

It would have been awfully nice to have a proper bit of rail. The UPVC rail (let us call it this for simplicity) would literally be half the price of the same length of metal/rolled rail.
I put out the feelers and managed to get my hands on some Ali rail, and we couldn't be happier with this over the cheaper alternative, all be it, twice the price However, if we are going to do this, might as well do it properly, right!? This is a lifelong dream of dads, and is very much instilled in me too, and with combined efforts and approval of the wives/accountants... we will slowly make this dream a reality!

As this will be twice the price per meter, it does mean that we will have to spread the track laying/orders over a longer period of time but... that's okay. It's worth taking the extra time to get what we want rather than what could be done quicker.


This is 16mm aluminum flat-bottom rail. As we had to make sure that we would have no adhesion issues and order too much, I found a seller on a well-known selling site (we will call it Me-bay) that sold half lengths of 2.5m rails (1.25m) with a reasonable delivery charge as an added bonus. Using the kiddies ride-on, I managed to confirm that adhesion would not be a problem.

So... as the tread says... Time to break ground!

Mr. O had already started the groundwork with the first 2.5m of the trackbed and despite the scorching sun, we plotted out the first gentle curve.


The garden, all be it fairly level, has some dips and rises the further down the line we go. We started with getting the edging stones in and level as a starting point before packing with hardcore and so on. That was HOT work! With the careful instruction of the surveyor (dad) we marked out a nice gentle curve to make its way around Mr. O's flower bed.




Dad at the reflecting pool thinking... "This is going to be fantastic, I can't wait to be feeling the breeze through me whiskers as we trundle down the line"... and "Ere, why isn't the lad helping me with this one?"


Whilst this isn't much as of yet as we had a limited time today and the sun on ludicrous mode, it is certainly the start of more to come. We still have some decisions and lessons to learn and make to find the best course of action. It was great to start contributing to the railway and making it happen.

Cheers,
Rich

 

[Richard Insole]

Day 2...

With the false hope of a slightly more overcast day and wanting to make the most of a day off work, we hit it once more. With shoulders scorched so hot, you could cook an egg on them!! we were really happy with the progress made today!

With the previous days' efforts of laying the blue edging bricks, today's first task was to take off the topsoil and bring it down a couple of inches to allow for a hardcore foundation. As this section of the line has to double up as a footpath and some learnings of the first 2-3 meters laid previously, we found that we needed to make a more firm base layer to slow any drainage movements or low spots created by compacting underfoot and rainfall drainage.

We used old bricks, concrete chunks from the old footpath, and anything that we could get under there to be broken down into small chunks and build up the foundation. Mr. O can be seen here compacting down the hardcore after taking a break from some light gardening. We couldn't let him miss getting his hands dirty with this one.


Under the careful instruction of the ground surveyor/site manager, we had already marked out and dug the leading edge, now was the time to measure out the flower bed, side of the gentle curve. We dare not deviate from the governors' plan for fear of repercussions... If you thought scolded shoulders were bad (haha)

All in jest of course...



With that all marked out, I proceeded to continue the line of olf victorian blue bricks up the edge of the trackbed. Starting to look really good and getting the juices flowing now.


After a small break and a sorting-out session down the garden in the 'station area', the ever wonderful hostess (mum) brought us some liquid refreshments so we could regain our strengths from the lashings of sunshine that broke out from behind the clouds.. We put down a thin layer of sand over the top of the hardcore.



With that, we then laid the geodetic path underlay supports that handily slot together to form a support structure for the path aspect of the track and some much-anticipated ballast was spread across...


Oooooo... Now that's starting to look a bit more proper. I can not wait to continue this into the curve!


Well... That was a lot of work! It's surprising how much work was required to get even this far in one day! We still need to backfill ballast to the sides of this section and using the geodetics will get a wee bit trickier as we start to go round the bend but, we have a plan and are very pleased with what we managed to achieve.

I have a week off work starting in a couple of days (I am a manager in a local market-leading cinema and the weeks off work weirdly) and more progress will be coming very soon. I am hoping that by the end of my time off, we will have some Ali track laid. Fingers crossed!

Cheers,
Rich/Pete (Dad)/The Stunning Hostess (Mum) and the ever formidable and elusive, 'Mr. O'.

 

[Peter Insole]

Ah, ha! The proof that old thespians never retire. There I was, doing a terrible impression of the cruel overseer, and to quote the late, great Spike Milligan: "...over acting his way towards another summer season at Scunthorpe!"

It got a laugh again!

Perhaps it is just as well that I missed a prize photographic opportunity when Rich was glowing as he leaned into the shovel, while a rather sedentary audience had gathered to observe the performance !!

I did manage to catch a still rosy Rich during the last act...



But the audience in the front row had already risen from their seats and exited, stage left by then.

On a more serious note; the perspective compression in the previous images belies the distance covered, amount of soil removed, bricks that were eventually persuaded to settle in place and what seemed like half at ton of hardcore that had to be heaved, thoroughly smashed up and then trammelled down.

Great work Rich and Mr. O. !!

Pete.

 

[Osgood]

A Zen rake on the ballast!

 

[Richard Insole]

I should have posted this a couple of weeks ago but, here is the next (all be it a little while ago) update.

After previously devastated shoulders from the sun, precautions were taken in the form of a gazebo to cover the working area. And boy, was that still unbearably hot! So, not much work was done within the update.

We went about working on the next section of groundwork Which meant more compacting and digging in the now hardening ground I also started on the flowerbed side of the line.



Lily also helped Mr. O with watering the plants in the shade. Hopefully, she didn't water them so much that they were water logged.


After a thin layer of sand was placed on top, we then started again by laying some more of the geodetic underlay support.



Not much more was done after this last photo was taken as it was just too warm. More has been done since then and sadly, I don't have the photos required to continue the next update. Dad will have to follow up with the next update

Cheers,
Rich

 

[Peter Insole]

A bit more had been done when the weather became a bit more conducive in Mr. O's garden!



That is as far as we got. The spoil heap is taking over what was left of the lawn, and there is still quite a way to go!

This morning, a couple of large boxes were delivered...



What's this Mr. O ??

Surely, not a lattice girder bridge for the railway ?!



Ah! I see. Maybe not then!

Pete.

 

[Peter Insole]

When the navvies are available again, that is when their days off and good weather both coincide, the foundation trench will reach the trees and the little "Secret Garden" beyond! Competing with, and climbing through a well established butterfly bush is a superb wild rose, the boughs of which are rapidly getting heavier and threatening to close the gaps toward the boundaries on either side. We are very reluctant to cut it back, but poor Mr, O., being quite a tall gentleman, has had to stoop ever lower in order to reach his potting shed!

Unlike HS2, which ("in the common good"???) will be bulldozed through just about every SSI, or ancient woodland anywhere near a potential path, (because, as usual, it is deemed to be less valuable land?) our railway engineers are a tad more sensitive to the environment!



Giving more effective support for the rose will allow the tree to be trimmed back, thus providing some additional light that will in turn hopefully encourage further growth of the bee and other bug friendly species.



You must admit, tha's a right booty ain' it !

The birds will appreciate the hips next winter too, so all in all, well worth taking care of !!

Pete.

 

[Tom Insole]

First time spotting this thread and it's great to have a way to keep up with the P/way gang when I can't make a trip to the hive due to other commitments! It's great to see some more progress since my last visit and also great to see nobody has strayed too far from the beaten track with this project!

Of course I know now some headway is being made and there's track on the ground this classes as a railway, thus probably needing a name We'd all need to know the name of the station too.. "Me and Scarlett are just off to 'X' station darling, see you later!"

 

[Peter Insole]

Grabbing a couple of fine weather windows in amongst the floods, I have been quite determined, despite the wretched physical impairments, to keep some sort of momentum going on the trackbed.

Oddly enough, I have found that shovelling several bucket loads of hardcore or dragging a few bags of ballast to the site was, at the end of the day, marginally less strenuous than crawling around on all fours to cut and lay the lightweight plastic reinforcing material ?

Here are some headway photographs:



Midway along this section the "Lawn" had much more of a dip than we at first realised, and has required a fair amount of additional ballast being dumped and trammelled to level the formation. As if progress was not already a rather slow process!

After a final push today, the complete bed has at last reached the limit of rail presently held in stock.



I had measured and cut slightly more trench than needed for the reinforcing panels, so the short, odd length was covered over with bricks to hopefully prevent the coming rains from washing away the exposed sand base or spreading over and mixing up the slate chippings with it.



The next section will be a bit of fun marking out and digging.

Some rather hard and compacted ground starts to notably rise, both ahead and more so at the right to reach the little "Dell" or "Secret garden". There will be quite a bit more soil to remove in order to minimise any gradient through the arch and then onward, right down to a return curve in front of the potting shed.

Meanwhile, a weekend of bad weather is forecast, so seeking sanctuary in the loco and carriage workshops will not only be welcomed, but will give my knees a chance to recover!!

Pete.

 

[Peter Insole]

A big push to get the engine progressed, as well as a shortage of available navvies has meant that track laying has been somewhat delayed. Autumn seems to have crept up on us, prompting some slightly panicky action at last.

One major hurdle, and yet another cause for the pause, has been the problematic prospect of bending flat bottomed rail. All the usual issues I'm afraid, including lack of adequate funding, appropriate materials and especially specialist tools !!

I have maintained a rather forlorn belief that it must surely be possible to rig something up - that particularly doesn't involve making three, very accurately turned, rail profiled rollers! This afternoon, I finally reached a point of utter desperation, where all the peculiar ideas and doubts that had been rumbling around in my head, had to be consciously consigned to the sin bin, and then go down to the workbench and commit myself to just one!!

In amongst the collection was a handy old cross-vice, with jaws that bolted on from the outside, which could be useful.

My thinking was along the lines of making a more aluminium friendly press, using the principals of a traditional "Jim crow", but with hopefully less tendency to produce "thrupenny bit" curves ?!

First, out with yet more of those fabulous Oak offcuts...



I planed two short pieces, one concave and the other convex to match. The curve was cautiously marked out and cut to be notably - but not too much - more than any radius that we might require. The idea was (again hopefully) to allow sufficient room for "spring-back", but not so as to cause a possible crimping effect ?



The two pieces did come snugly together before the next step was undertaken. A flat file slid between the partially closed jaws soon sorted out some awkward high spots !

Next, I cut some narrow strips of firm, but flexible 1.5mm Birch ply to laminate up into two, negative rail profiles...



The wider strips stand out from the base (which itself should grip the foot) by the difference between the rail head and foot, while the second layer on top is the same depth and width of the central web section. Contact over the entire profile would be maintained when pressure is applied.



Would it work...??

With heart very much in mouth - that rail is jolly precious stuff for us - it was time to put the theory to test...



It is difficult to see in the photograph, but it was indeed, slowly, steadily, starting to come round...



No nasty dinks or kinks apparent so far... and to my utter amazement, the foot was staying nice and flat, along the full length too !

In my excitement, I completely forgot to switch off Mr. O's "pondcam", so he will see me later, skedaddling down to the end of the line in order to try the successfully sinuous rail in situ...



I was concerned not to overdo the experimental exercise down in the remote workshop rather than on location, but I need not have worried:

Just a few more passes will be required, mainly at the furthest end, as I had allowed for a degree of transition in the curve when setting out the formation.

Pete.

 

[Richard Insole]

I will add my bit. We will take a small step backwards in time. I was a little slow this time to pin myself down in front of the PC to post this...

As you may know, we have been sitting on some nice Ali rail, waiting for ships to align with both the weather and time off work for me to come down and get some progress with getting some rail down.

We already had 2.5 metres of this UPVC rail down and the question was on whether we should run with this cheaper, and already proven concept, or just say "ah stuff it" and rip it up and put down the Ali rail. We had an alternative plan on where we would use the Ali rail, further down the line if we did go with the original, more affordable option.

If we were going to take up the old stuff, no reason why we can't enjoy the little stretch one last time.
We both got the most out of our 2.5m stretch to fuel ourselves up before breaking it apart. As you can see here, Dad is at the limit of shunt here...


As you can already see, we went for the 'stuff it' plan.

And you know what... if there was ever a concern that this might not hold up over time, with the odd or different methods of securing rail outside of the usual sleepers etc, we were both humbled and surprised. The old plastic rail was not as easy as you would expect to remove, taking and hammer and chisel to it, to break it free. Considering that this has survived at least one winter... Not bad at all!?!

Feeling disheartened by the backwards progress and the term "You have to break some eggs" being continually muttered under our breaths, we pressed on with ripping up, checking distances, alignments and clearing away all of the old crete that previously held the old concept (UPVC) rails.

Progress was slow and sadly, not many photo opportunities were taken. However, once we had the first rail or two down, I was reminded that I had been remiss in not taking any. So sadly, photos were taken 'after the fact'...

As you can see here, the rails were set in place all the while, checking back to backs whilst we waited for the gold dust, concrete to set. Mr O informed us that getting hold of concrete/postcrete around all of the shortages and the likes made us all the more grateful to be even getting this far. Thankfully, we don't need heaps of the stuff due to great planning (and a little sheer luck) okay... maybe a bit of luck! but, we can still take away that where there is a will... there is probably an easier way to do it. This way worked/works really well without breaking the bank or compromising on keeping what it was originally intended as. A path.


Jumping forward to today, and following on from dads post...


Of course, we had to test it out... for purely 'academic' purposes...

Now surpassing the previous limit of shunt and into our first curve... grinning ear to ear, up and down we went! And, I can inform you, it works fabulously!




Including a little bit of silliness with a vape for trickery reminding us that if you didn't know this was almost exclusively made out of wood at the hands of frighteningly good workmanship by Dad, you could be fooled into thinking this was 'The real deal'... Although, even though this is not an all-metal construction with fireboxes, boilers, steam cocks, pistons and cylinders, I would still argue that this IS 'the real deal'. Would it be great if this had a living coal fire in it giving it the power to move, of course? But, you don't need that to define whether it is real or not.


Anywho... That's all from me!

Cheers,
Rich

 

[Peter Insole]

This week the weather has been too good to waste, so after cutting back and then adding another coat of paint on the engine saddle tank first thing each morning, some rather mundane but otherwise essential permanent way work has been going on in the garden.

As Rich pointed out in his last post; the new rails, on that most unusual formation have proved to be remarkably successful, and any fears about durability or adhesion seem to have been unfounded. There were a couple of niggling issues that in our excitement, neither of us thought to mention though!

Firstly, the original experimental rails were laid on a single line of geodetics, with the well meaning intention of filling in once the theory had been thoroughly tested. On the initial section, slate chippings were spread over the remaining gap, straight on top of the hardcore base, while further along I had completed covering the entire pathway. As Rich and I were relaying, it was noticeable that the regularly trampled part was subsiding - and taking the edge of the geodetics with it, so some packing with fresh sand was required, as can be seen in four of the previously posted photographs.

It turned out to be a horrible, crawling about on hands and knees job, scraping out all the thoroughly trodden in chippings while desperately trying to salvage as much of the expensive stuff as possible before having to re level the ground...



The task would have been utterly intolerable without the aid of an old chair cushion!

I had already finished three, and there where only two more sections to go in the above image, but it felt more like twenty by the time I had reached this far down the straight!



Once the material is firmly contained on either side, and despite the lightweight nature of the interlocking, the joints don't seem to move very much - certainly not in the medium term anyway?! Hopefully, the next few rain showers will rinse the remaining grot away and leave Mr. O's path looking a bit nearer to it's almost pristine condition once again?

The second issue was again a result of some impatience and otherwise outright error of judgement. The resolution would be even more awkward - and uncomfortable!

As the line enters the long curves, my measurements of the almost buried staffie brick edgings went awry! I somehow managed to introduce a climb before maintaining a perfect level for the majority. Not much to be particularly noticeable, but more than enough to foul the footboards of the driving truck! Raising the trackbed is not practical as that would cause problems with the existing flower beds, so lowering the bricks appears to be the only option.

Digging the outlying ground away was obvious... but then again: As each brick is lifted out, some of the sand packing and hardcore would slump down into the trench, and be near impossible to properly replace under the geodetics and ballast! Lift the whole jolly lot and start again... ?! Not bloomin' likely !!

The only solution I could think of...



Working one at a time, (because of the curve) hammer a small sheet of steel down between the brick and the ballast, thus creating a temporary bund and allowing the brick to be levered out, while leaving all the supporting materials in place.



A trowel was much too wide, but using a bricklayer's pointing tool was perfect for digging down behind and lifting out enough muck to drop (after a bit of hammering!) the replaced brick to the correct depth.

Roughly about half way through the job, I had reached and gone slightly beyond the limit of rail, and indeed my mental and physical endurance !!

After all that tedious effort, I had to finish with a proper test...



Just to make sure!

You know the sort of thing... maybe one more trip to be absolutely sure !!

Pete.

 

[Pencarrow]

Looks great Pete!

How far are you thinking of going with the track? Will it be an out and back single line or a circuit? Any thoughts on adding 2 turnouts to give you a shunting puzzle?

 

[Peter Insole]

Hi Chris, I suppose it is not really that far in the overall scheme of things, but for us it will be a long, long way! The total running line will be around forty one yards, including the half circle loop back to a single set of points. There will be a further six yards beyond the "station" leading off the main path to a turntable. Unfortunately, there is not quite enough room for another loop at that end to make a continuous run, but turning the loco for each trip could provide some fun - or might become a chore - we shall see?!

There is the possibility of adding an extra set of points and laying a long, straight spur right down to the road, which would considerably reduce the distance stock has to be carried from the house, but part one of the plan will keep us busy enough for the time being...!

Mind you, I do really fancy the idea of a nice, traditional, ship lapped timber, enginemen's bothy on the platform. Painted and decorated in authentic railway colours (of course) and complete with a wee, cast iron stove and kettle. Somewhere to settle comfortably in between trains.

Ahhhh, now that's the stuff dreams are made of !!

Pete.

 

[Tom Insole]

Today was a one of those impromptu moments I was passing by to collect some Duplo track for my little lady and decided why the heck not… let’s see if the ILR was open..

when we arrived we startled the chairman of the establishment by going through the door and entering the kitchen whilst he was busy inspecting A boiler of the stationary variety! Quickly topped up it made a fantastic brew
After some light reading of paperwork I had been gifted the correct gear was donned and down the alley we went together with a loco in tow!

sat on the line it was soon “steamed up” ready to go! Especially with the assistance from the youngest recruit


I should add now a little video with fantastic audio of me asking if she wanted to make the return trip…
https://youtube.com/shorts/LR4M89ZWNlA?feature=share

fun was had by all and I even got a good few runs up and down.
I feel I might have to make a few little items for placement along the line.

already both myself and Scarlett can’t wait for the next extension to be able to travel a little further up the “pathway”
Many thanks to a very humble host!

 

[Mike Garwood]

Fantastic!

 

[Allen M]

Catch them young and "train" them in the right way.

Regards
Allen

 

[michael mott]

Wow! what a treat for the grandchildren.....pretty cool for the grown ups too.

Michael

 

[Richard Insole]

What a fantastic couple of posts. I think this is one of my favourite aspects of our little narrow-gauge line. The way that even tho this is still in the early stages, it can bring the family all together. We obviously had 00 and 16mm railways over the years and it was always the dream that one day we would have a railway that we could actually 'sit on' and enjoy. I am so proud that we have got this off the ground.

Yes, Tom. Please, do get involved. It is just as much your railway to come and enjoy with the little one as it is ours. The plan is, once the weather has turned, to focus on the LAT and carriage. Whilst the carriage has taken a small break on the account of getting some rail down and solving some head-scratching about how we would bend the rail (one that is now solved), the focus will turn back to the rolling stock and the LAT soon enough.

You are right Dad, we did forget to mention that. I fear that as soon as the engine was out, it stole our focus from it? As you say, it did need extensive 'testing'. Glad to see that it all went okay, lowering the edging and fitting the additional support that was needed. I for one cannot wait to get our hands on some more rail soon. Although we do need to get our hands on some more fishplates so we can use the remaining 4 lengths that we still have, that will take us the rest of the way up to the points/end of the already prepared path.

I must say, that shiny coat on the tank allowing for all the reflections is looking mighty hansom!

Rich