7mm American O scale Southern Pacific Motive Power and Rolling Stock

Stephen

Western Thunderer
Seeing as I've been slowly disposing of all my UK based OO gauge and concentrating solely on O gauge, I took the first step into moving from HO to O with my interest in American railroads too.

The first purchase is an Intermountain 40' 1937 AAR Box Car in SP livery. The kit looks pretty decent, although the detail very fine, so holding off starting it until I've replenish my scalpel collection to ensure precise cuts.

As far as this side project will go, I'm going to aim for a short rake of box vans with a caboose and hopefully a 2-8-0 at the head of the cut. SP is my preferred road, although a mix of box cars from other railroads would always be welcome.

As I've started looking more into this 'side project', I have a myriad of questions, I wonder any of the good folk on here could answer or comment on?

1. Is there any other company who make kits to the same level of detail (or better) than the Intermountain former products? A run through google and the Walthers website hasn't revealed much, and the imagery on the Atlas website possibly does convince me of their quality - am I wrong ?

2. Looking tat the box car kit it recommends Kadee 804 or 805 couplings. One is plastic, the other is metal, both however are the same price from gaugemaster. Would anyone recommend one over the other?

3. Does anyone know of a company that makes transfers/decals for SP Box Cars? Microscale don't seem to have anything for the steam era.

4. Any recommendations for RTR or good caboose kits that would be suitable for SP? Again a trawl of the t'interweb hasn't been that successful.

5. The expensive one - can anyone recommend what sort of brass 2-8-0 I should look out for, and is there a general brass retailer who would be a good starting point?

Many Thanks in advance!

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richard carr

Western Thunderer
I've got one of those, it even has the same number !

It's a nice kit, I built quite and all I can recall is that it was like building an airfix kit, it all went very smoothly

What type of trucks are you going to use, mine has San Juan plastic ones with NWSL wheels.

Richard

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mickoo

Western Thunderer
Welcome to the dark side....muhahahar

To answer your questions as best I can.

1: Not that I am aware of, kits do not feature highly in the US market as far as I can tell, though I'm more into modern modelling so there may be fringe cottage suppliers in older stock I'm not aware of. Twin Star Cars do a modern box car and I think they have a flat and Gondola on the way/already available.

2: I prefer metal couplings myself but it's purely a personal thing.

3: Check out Circus City, though they tend to do the more esoteric decals, then there is Switch Line Decals, but your best bet is probably going to be K4 decals which I think tends toward the 40-60's era and most freight cars. I've heard of Champ decals but not looked through their listings as yet and there are some others who's name escapes me right now. Remember also that many decals are no longer made but available from shelves of stockists. I was after some discontinued BNSF GEVO decals from Microscale, eventually found some at P&D hobbies so bought a load in bulk.

Try Ebay, like it or loathe it you often find hard to get decals on there decals in Model Railroads & Trains: Search Result | eBay

4: There are no decent RTR SP cabooses that I've found, depends which type you want, cupola, bay window, wood or steel clad; thoroughly recommend the SP book Freight Cars Vol 2, it's the bible on SP cabooses, details, drawings and good photos. When I get time I'm hoping to work an etch up for a C50 class steel bay window model.

5: Grey area here, two distinct types of brass model, the more common (though not necessarily cheaper) RTR from 3rd rail sunset or older and often more detailed import brass from Korea. There are numerous builders and importers so it is a minefield especially when you get to the detail level. Some importers are, and these are in age/detail order starting oldest first, Max Grey, US Hobbies, Westside Models, all three of these commissioned different builders to make their products, names like Samhongsa or KTM are builders. For good stuff with moderate detail then look for Samhongsa, KTM is more like modern RTR brass, but then they're usually 40-50 year old models so detail wasn't so prevalent.

Other names to look out for in the higher detail/cost area, Overland (OMI) though they tend to focus on Union Pacific, another is Precision Scale Co (PSC) these tend to focus more on SP and they're good models with a price tag to reflect it. Others in the same detail level are Pacific Fast Mail (PFM) and slightly better, Glacier Park. Top of the range is Kohs but they are very expensive, very short runs and only half a dozen models to their name I think.

Join up to Brasstrains.com and browse their extensive data base, it'll give you a good idea of what's available and expected prices.


There is a Sunset 3rd rail 2-6-0 on ebay at the moment 3rd Rail O Southern Pacific Mogul 2-6-0 Steam Loco W/ Whaleback Tender/Box | eBay

And a 2-8-0 but 3 rail O GAUGE 3RD RAIL DIVISION SOUTHERN PACIFIC SUNSET MODELS 3 RAIL 2-8-0 PRE-OWNED | eBay I'd avoid 3 rail steamers as the wheels are massively over thick and require swapping out.

Watch out for Sunset models, there are two brands, earlier more detailed lower run brass imports and recent RTR mass produced. The boxes are black and yellow but if it has the rifled barrel logo then it's the older more detailed model, more modern ones have 3rd rail on them. IUt's important to know this as many sellers make the mistake of selling the older Sunset (Samhongsa) models for the cheaper price of the 3rd Rail RTR, but, it also goes the other way, some try to sell the cheaper RTR for the older import prices.

There's quite a lot of information dotted around in my old US dabblings thread 7mm - US model dabblings it got very diluted in the end with others posting, I don't mind people posting stuff here and there but when the ratio is 10:1 it's time to move on, so I started a new one just for my stuff Mickoo's American Modelling Empire
 

Jordan

Mid-Western Thunderer
Re Kadee, go for the 805, metal ones. It's like in HO, the plastic 'clone' couplers like Bachmann EZmate just don't work as nicely as metal Kadees.
 

Stephen

Western Thunderer
Thanks for all the replies! :thumbs:

What type of trucks are you going to use, mine has San Juan plastic ones with NWSL wheels.
I'd not even considered using anything apart from what has been supplied in the kit in all honesty. I might give them a go in the interim, then maybe replace in due course. The kit has plastic wheels which are wholly inadequate, but whilst there is no layout they are fine for a 'shelf queen'.

Welcome to the dark side....muhahahar

To answer your questions as best I can.

1: Not that I am aware of, kits do not feature highly in the US market as far as I can tell, though I'm more into modern modelling so there may be fringe cottage suppliers in older stock I'm not aware of. Twin Star Cars do a modern box car and I think they have a flat and Gondola on the way/already available.

2: I prefer metal couplings myself but it's purely a personal thing.

3: Check out Circus City, though they tend to do the more esoteric decals, then there is Switch Line Decals, but your best bet is probably going to be K4 decals which I think tends toward the 40-60's era and most freight cars. I've heard of Champ decals but not looked through their listings as yet and there are some others who's name escapes me right now. Remember also that many decals are no longer made but available from shelves of stockists. I was after some discontinued BNSF GEVO decals from Microscale, eventually found some at P&D hobbies so bought a load in bulk.

Try Ebay, like it or loathe it you often find hard to get decals on there decals in Model Railroads & Trains: Search Result | eBay

4: There are no decent RTR SP cabooses that I've found, depends which type you want, cupola, bay window, wood or steel clad; thoroughly recommend the SP book Freight Cars Vol 2, it's the bible on SP cabooses, details, drawings and good photos. When I get time I'm hoping to work an etch up for a C50 class steel bay window model.

5: Grey area here, two distinct types of brass model, the more common (though not necessarily cheaper) RTR from 3rd rail sunset or older and often more detailed import brass from Korea. There are numerous builders and importers so it is a minefield especially when you get to the detail level. Some importers are, and these are in age/detail order starting oldest first, Max Grey, US Hobbies, Westside Models, all three of these commissioned different builders to make their products, names like Samhongsa or KTM are builders. For good stuff with moderate detail then look for Samhongsa, KTM is more like modern RTR brass, but then they're usually 40-50 year old models so detail wasn't so prevalent.

Other names to look out for in the higher detail/cost area, Overland (OMI) though they tend to focus on Union Pacific, another is Precision Scale Co (PSC) these tend to focus more on SP and they're good models with a price tag to reflect it. Others in the same detail level are Pacific Fast Mail (PFM) and slightly better, Glacier Park. Top of the range is Kohs but they are very expensive, very short runs and only half a dozen models to their name I think.

Join up to Brasstrains.com and browse their extensive data base, it'll give you a good idea of what's available and expected prices.


There is a Sunset 3rd rail 2-6-0 on ebay at the moment 3rd Rail O Southern Pacific Mogul 2-6-0 Steam Loco W/ Whaleback Tender/Box | eBay

And a 2-8-0 but 3 rail O GAUGE 3RD RAIL DIVISION SOUTHERN PACIFIC SUNSET MODELS 3 RAIL 2-8-0 PRE-OWNED | eBay I'd avoid 3 rail steamers as the wheels are massively over thick and require swapping out.

Watch out for Sunset models, there are two brands, earlier more detailed lower run brass imports and recent RTR mass produced. The boxes are black and yellow but if it has the rifled barrel logo then it's the older more detailed model, more modern ones have 3rd rail on them. IUt's important to know this as many sellers make the mistake of selling the older Sunset (Samhongsa) models for the cheaper price of the 3rd Rail RTR, but, it also goes the other way, some try to sell the cheaper RTR for the older import prices.

There's quite a lot of information dotted around in my old US dabblings thread 7mm - US model dabblings it got very diluted in the end with others posting, I don't mind people posting stuff here and there but when the ratio is 10:1 it's time to move on, so I started a new one just for my stuff Mickoo's American Modelling Empire
Many Thanks for that response - that will keep me busy most of the weekend! I've been offered a few other Intermountain kits, but in odd liveries, so might snap them up and repaint/re-decal in due course.
Re Kadee, go for the 805, metal ones. It's like in HO, the plastic 'clone' couplers like Bachmann EZmate just don't work as nicely as metal Kadees.
That was my thinking, so glad for the confirmation!
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Re Kadee, go for the 805, metal ones. It's like in HO, the plastic 'clone' couplers like Bachmann EZmate just don't work as nicely as metal Kadees.
I though 804 and 805 were both plastic couplers, but 805 is metal gearbox?....Edit, that may be incorrect information on the site I looked at.

I've used 745 metal couplings in plastic gearboxes and the all metal coupling and gearbox is 740. These are the more expensive and prototypical shaped heads I think, they look better to me anyway :cool:
 
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Focalplane

Western Thunderer
If you can find a copy of the Encyclopaedia of Model Railways this has a surprising amount of information on O scale kit building, etc. An example is the construction of an Ambroid box car. Another a kit of a 40ft reefer by All Nation Line. Names to look for but they are old names, I bought my copy of the book in 1980!

As an SP fan of old I am delighted this is your choice of road. Don’t forget that Cotton Belt and T&NORR were subsidiaries.

You might also consider joining trainorders.com. My own membership has lapsed since starting Moor Street, but it was very useful. I second flagging brasstrains.com.
 

Focalplane

Western Thunderer
Stephen

If you are looking for a prototype C class loco I have a copy of Dunscomb’s steam bible with pages of Consolidation photos. There were 32 classes that carried SP numbers. PM me.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Stephen

If you are looking for a prototype C class loco I have a copy of Dunscomb’s steam bible with pages of Consolidation photos. There were 32 classes that carried SP numbers. PM me.
That's a book I don't have, now remedied and in the post :thumbs:

The other good roster book is Steam Locomotive compendium, Diebert/Strapac it's less photo but more data orientated. it lists engines by company and subsidiaries so is hard going looking for something across a class, especially as SP often swapped engines across owner ships and subsidiary railroads for allocation and tax purposes, UP were no different either.

It may have been better laid out by class and then ownership under each class but that only helps people searching by class, not those searching by company.
 

Jordan

Mid-Western Thunderer
I though 804 and 805 were both plastic couplers, but 805 is metal gearbox?....Edit, that may be incorrect information on the site I looked at.

I've used 745 metal couplings in plastic gearboxes and the all metal coupling and gearbox is 740. These are the more expensive and prototypical shaped heads I think, they look better to me anyway :cool:
805 is metal throughout, coupler & gearbox. Except on Ellis Clark's website where it says plastic couplers & metal gearboxes. Everyone else must be wrong!!?? ;)
804 are all plastic; I thought there was a metal couplers/plastic gearbox combination for live-chassis brass loco models, but not sure. The only point of a plastic gearbox was to insulate the couplers on these engines.
The 7xx-series have internal knuckle springs so do look better than the 805. I don't think they are 'scale size' though; I think I've read somewhere of some modellers using the 802 S Scale coupler on O models.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
805 is metal throughout, coupler & gearbox. Except on Ellis Clark's website where it says plastic couplers & metal gearboxes. Everyone else must be wrong!!?? ;)
804 are all plastic; I thought there was a metal couplers/plastic gearbox combination for live-chassis brass loco models, but not sure. The only point of a plastic gearbox was to insulate the couplers on these engines.
The 7xx-series have internal knuckle springs so do look better than the 805. I don't think they are 'scale size' though; I think I've read somewhere of some modellers using the 802 S Scale coupler on O models.
That'll explain it then, Ellis Clark has it wrong :))

The 745 is a metal coupler in a plastic pocket if that helps, it's what I tend to use; you're right it's for insulating steamers with their 2R live chassis pick ups, might even need them for 3R stuff too?

You're right, 7xx is not scale size but I think it might have a better shape a little more closer to the real thing than the 8xx.

Addendum, a decent modern shelf coupler would be nice ;)
 
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Focalplane

Western Thunderer
Another book that covers the history of the Espee from 1901 to 1985 is by Don L. Hofsommer.

I just checked Amazon UK and it is available! Some great photos in the well researched hard back book.
 

Brian T

Western Thunderer
1. Is there any other company who make kits to the same level of detail (or better) than the Intermountain former products? A run through google and the Walthers website hasn't revealed much
Hi Steven welcome to the wonder full world of American O :rolleyes:

To your question of 'other kits';
Red Caboose also made some O scale plastic kit`s in the same manor as Intermountain,which can still be found,plus they also sold some as RTR cars too... ( Intermountain also ) P1010629.JPG

From these you start to delve into the world of resin freight car kits.
Chooch models (now gone) did several kit`s though i`d tend to stay away from them unless there sold under the Ultra Scale II label,reason being unlike the later one peice body`s they were flat kit`s that tend to warp over time and how ever hard you try you'll never straighten/ flatten out them again !! (something to do with the resin used)
P1010624.JPG

Other kits are avalible from Welcome to Rails Unlimited
These next kits two are from railsunlimitedP1010626.JPG
P1010627.JPG
Both of these are sold as flat kits or in the case of the Lehigh Valley box car can be brought with the body assembled,and unlike some other kits are very basic; ie you`ll need to buy all the detailing parts seperate,this i assume is the same across their range?.

Next up is Smoky Mountain model worksSmoky Mountain Model Works
P1010628.JPG
These are a modern well designed kit`s but run in small batches,and from what i assume they have no O scale kit`s avalible at the moment.:(

And lastly there are/were small runs done for various conventions.
P1010625.JPG
Now i don`t know who produced this kit and the others marked on the box,but it is in the same league detail wise as the Ultra Scale II kit above (ie complete with all detail parts).
Another company to watch is Southern Car & Foundry , Product categories O Scale Rolling Stock
Again short run`s so you have to be quick!....
San Juan also do a couple of excellent plastic boxcar kit`s for the DRGW & WP/SN roads, (both of which i`d love to have) but you`d be better off trying to find them on the second hand market as the company`s postal rates are eye watering.....

There are a couple of others but i can`t remember them off the top of my head at the moment.

As a side, this free online magazine should be of interest to you because it has smaller supliers advertising in it.
Home | The O Scale Resource

Cheers,
Brian.
 
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