4mm Monks: perhaps NOT a Classic Minories - for a grandchild.

Overseer

Western Thunderer
Twelve milli ply takes some drilling!
Jonte,
A decent quality sharp drill bit should go through the ply very easily without any burning. Burning means the drill is not cutting efficiently and is blunt. I know getting good drill bits from the large diy places is nearly impossible in the UK, maybe try an engineering tool supplier for drills that work properly. In Aus (and NZ) we are lucky to still have a major manufacturer of drills etc - Suttons - so good drill bits are available everywhere. The difference between a good drill bit and one which just looks like a drill bit is extreme.
 

NHY 581

Western Thunderer
Morning Jonte.

A classis two steps back and one step forwards but good to see progress being made.

Coming on.


Rob.
 

jonte

Western Thunderer
Jonte,
A decent quality sharp drill bit should go through the ply very easily without any burning. Burning means the drill is not cutting efficiently and is blunt. I know getting good drill bits from the large diy places is nearly impossible in the UK, maybe try an engineering tool supplier for drills that work properly. In Aus (and NZ) we are lucky to still have a major manufacturer of drills etc - Suttons - so good drill bits are available everywhere. The difference between a good drill bit and one which just looks like a drill bit is extreme.

Thanks, Overseer, for the tip if you’ll pardon the pun.

You’re right, of course: cheap set from Tool-fix or wherever, and the 3 milli pilot drill one of a handful for ten Bob or so from a trade equivalent, kindly gifted by my brother-in-law.

Another downside which I didn’t mention, was that I split one of the wooden end pieces as a consequence of having to ‘force’ the drill through the wood from underneath. I rather suspected this might happen but didn’t bet on it having such a marked effect (the cross pieces above meant that I couldn’t get the drill in to drill from the top, thus I had to mark the underneath and drill from there. Careful removal of the fairly large chipped piece and a spot of judicial sanding had everything in order, but I was darned lucky!).

I shall heed your advice, sir, and invest accordingly.

Many thanks for your interest.

Jonte
 

jonte

Western Thunderer
Morning Jonte.

A classis two steps back and one step forwards but good to see progress being made.

Coming on.


Rob.

Hi Rob.

A little profound to say, I know, but I seldom find anything in life straight forward.

But I believe the good Lord favours me because I try ;).

Thanks for popping in.

Jonte
 

jonte

Western Thunderer
Overcast here in the ‘pool, fellow Westerners, but reassured by the forecast that it will remain dry nevertheless, I decided to give my slowly growing collection of irons and and paraphernalia their perennial airing, and stick some wiring onto rail:

4CE9ABF3-F920-4265-A17E-6900C9C0A1EE.jpeg

It got steadily messier than this on the table, and so did the soldering :(

First job however, was to remove the wires that bond the frog to the closure rails; an easy job, first by lifting the wires at the provided break with a small Stanley blade, then making the cut with a small pair of Xurons. Twiddling thecfemains with a small file removed the remainder quite satisfactorily. Next - wasn’t sure I was going to bother with this as it’s just a train set - but decided to have a bash at removing the plastic lugs on the tie bar ends. Piercing saw proved too much for the job, so resorted to sharp Stanley blade. Finished off with a small file. Despite securing the bar with digit immediately inboard of lug, I discovered when the job was done, that the bar was at an angle to the stock rails instead of perp. as before. Still, no loss of movement or awkwardness in rails. Think I’ll carry on doing same with the others.

Started by soldering the electrical solder (cut off small pieces to fit in gap in sleepers provided) and warmed up the big boogaloo to give plenty if heat as kindly advised by @simond, but as the bit was a tad on large side, I bottled out and revved up the little (yellow) guy with the finer bit. Which worked. Thankfully. Still, even with the extremist of care, electrical solder is still a bit on the blobby side; which - for the sake of neatness - I don’t like. Might use the resin cored variety next, which is also visible in that shot of my messy table (forgot to mention Im taking advantage of the clement spell to work outside as solder gets to me a bit).

309AEAC6-F131-4923-ABA3-D3A1538120C1.jpeg

Anyway, here it is replete with feeds to stock rails bonded to closures, and separate frog freed to switch the polarity:

1DBF4A9C-A78B-4C58-9C13-117184AD8EC0.jpeg

Think next time - with the solder being user unfriendly as in my case, I’ll bond the closures and frog with an off cut of bell wire and just solder a feed to the single stock rail. Oh, forgot to mention,that the little guy was fine fixing the first wire feed, but proved a little under-nourished for the second for some reason, so I broke out my in-betweener in the form of the 25W - think the little fellow is 18W from memory - just to give it a little more grunt, thankfully the larger bit not melting the sleepers either side.

And in position on the baseboard:

712C3718-FC5B-4923-BEDC-3D733A3FA64F.jpeg

Thankfully, brief testing has revealed no dry joints.

Now for the other six.

Thankfully the Sun has just turned up so should get an uninterrupted run at this afternoon. Fingers crossed.

Thanks for looking.

Jonte

Edit to insert photo as large image.
 

simond

Western Thunderer
Jonte,

glad my comments seem to help.

I’m not sure it this will, but rather than cutting off the good Mr Prichard’s welded-on wiring, can you not just cut it, and solder feed wires to the ends left welded to the underside of the rails.

soldering this way requires less waft, thus the yellow iron will do the job with no worry.

if you end up with “blobby solder”, you’ve either not got enough heat into the job, or put too much solder on. The latter can be a result of the former, as if the metal is dirty, you’ll need more flux to get the solder to run, and that leads to too much of everything. Clean the job, and the iron and solder, and have another shot.

not sure what power that Wickes iron is but given the chunky bit, it should do a lovely job of feed wires under rails.

good luck!
Simon
 

jonte

Western Thunderer
Jonte,

glad my comments seem to help.

I’m not sure it this will, but rather than cutting off the good Mr Prichard’s welded-on wiring, can you not just cut it, and solder feed wires to the ends left welded to the underside of the rails.

soldering this way requires less waft, thus the yellow iron will do the job with no worry.

if you end up with “blobby solder”, you’ve either not got enough heat into the job, or put too much solder on. The latter can be a result of the former, as if the metal is dirty, you’ll need more flux to get the solder to run, and that leads to too much of everything. Clean the job, and the iron and solder, and have another shot.

not sure what power that Wickes iron is but given the chunky bit, it should do a lovely job of feed wires under rails.

good luck!
Simon

Hi again, Simon, and many thanks for your valued assistance as usual :thumbs:

That’s a darned good idea, Simon, however, when I came to ‘lifting’ the bonded wires on the rest, they broke off at either one or both ends simultaneously, and in the case of just one end breaking off, the other soon went the same way when I pressed it down again!!

Think I ended my last post mentioning about a separate bonding wire instead of the feeds doing the two jobs in the interests of ‘blobbiness’, but this proved a pain - prefer single stranded bell wire to this multi strand stuff recommended for DCC, however, I don’t think it’s up to the job of carrying the extra amperage - and just extended the amount of time taken to wire a turnout - so I resolved to going back to just the feeds doing the one job.

Incidentally, I also mentioned in the last post my dislike of electrical solder and thoughts about continuing with some resin cored stuff instead, and which could also be seen in the photo alongside the tube of ‘leccy stuff.

This proved prudent and not only solved the issue, but allowed me to continue with my little yellow friend with the finer bit and in swifter time. Result!

In answer to your question, Simon, the unused big red’un is an 80 W jobbie which I purchased towards the end of my unsuccessful kit build last year. I’m still looking for an excuse to wield it anger :)

Thanks again for your interest, Simon.

Jonte
 

simond

Western Thunderer
Jonte,

I use this kind of stuff. It’s available in different thicknesses, but the thin stuff suits modelling. It’s also available in 100g rolls, but the price varies tremendously, so do be wary, particularly with some modelling and many on-line vendors.

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/solder/7568900/

It is Rosin (flux) cored, which is ideal. Rosin can cause bad reactions for some folks, happily it’s never bothered me, tho’ good ventilation helps, of course, don’t inhale the smoke! You can buy lead-free solder, but it’s harder to use, and more expensive, so I’d suggest that, if you’re not selling your works as a business, stick to tin-lead.

if you need some extra flux, citric acid is cheap, easy to buy (Wilko sell it in the home brew section) and washes off with a drop of water.

hth
Simon
 

jonte

Western Thunderer
Jonte,

I use this kind of stuff. It’s available in different thicknesses, but the thin stuff suits modelling. It’s also available in 100g rolls, but the price varies tremendously, so do be wary, particularly with some modelling and many on-line vendors.

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/solder/7568900/

It is Rosin (flux) cored, which is ideal. Rosin can cause bad reactions for some folks, happily it’s never bothered me, tho’ good ventilation helps, of course, don’t inhale the smoke! You can buy lead-free solder, but it’s harder to use, and more expensive, so I’d suggest that, if you’re not selling your works as a business, stick to tin-lead.

if you need some extra flux, citric acid is cheap, easy to buy (Wilko sell it in the home brew section) and washes off with a drop of water.

hth
Simon
:thumbs:

Cheers for posting the link and the advice, Simon.

I actually have some of the citric variety - purchased from the ‘O’ gauge society store as I recall - as kindly recommended by Brian (@oldravendale ). Great that it just washes off.

Jonte
 

jonte

Western Thunderer
‘And pretty maids all in a row’:

4F62C896-602F-4116-84E4-C829D632D5A3.jpeg

Actually no, not at all, fellow Westerners. They’re not pretty nor in a single row, but the wires are held firmly in place without any dry joints, so I’ll consider the exercise a quiet success.

I cheated on the last couple and resorted to good old flux with the cored stuff: in and out first time, no excess heat and everything stuck like the proverbial doings to a blanket. Tidier too. Thanks for the tip once again, Simon @simond . As it was a citric flux, I just washed the areas concerned with a large artists brush and water, dried with some kitchen towel.

Not a very exciting post, so my apologies.

Next: open out some of the holes on the baseboard as even more wiggle room is required, and then raise the whole thing up a few inches to let the wires dangle freely. Then the track can be pinned in place and tested.

Just hope I’ve got the feeds the right way round ( not such a big deal with DC, but I believe the power to a whole neighbourhood is at risk with DCC if there’s a short!).

Jonte
 

jonte

Western Thunderer
Back already, fellow Westerners, as curiosity was rather throttling the cat, and I wanted to see how much wiggle room was needed to allow for fitting together of sections with fishplates attached, bearing in mind that the newly attached wires would now impede manouvre-bility somewhat.

For starters, I was horrified to find that two of the feedholes were totally in the wrong place - my poor concentration span again at fault here, and this was only the second piece (how many more are wrong I’ve yet to discover!) - and those I’ve tried for fit have had to have their holes rebored to a greater diameter to allow for the bend in the wires overlapping the rail in some cases instead of being directly under the rail as intended, and which were preventing me from marrying up one to the other. In fact, these additional holes, and the enlarging of some existing ones, have meant that now the whole of Blackburn, Greater Lancashire (well one of them’s gotta be right) has now disappeared into one massive hole. Apologies to the residents of same.

Here’s a photo to give you an idea (apologies for poor light).

115C173A-24A3-4629-B1F0-926BBCEA2C8B.jpeg

You can see an example of a massive hole to the right of that second point. Box of filler required here, I suspect; fortunately, it’s also hiding two wrongly located holes beneath.

You may also notice the insulated fishplates fitted to the first point top right of photo. I’ve discovered - think I’ve been rather naive in thinking otherwise- that even with these cavernous cavities, there’s no way on God’s Earth that I’ll be able to fit them in situ unless I cut the fish plates in half. No thanks.

So tomorrow, I’ll continue to check wire in holes for the other four points and add/adjust accordingly. When satisfied, I’m going to place the ends of the wires in their respective holes, and join up each section to its neighbour in its entirety - starting with the metal fish plates first as the plazzy ones are bit too flexible and will probably flop under the weight as I’ve discovered - then somehow jiggle the whole into the..holes.....ensuring that the wires don’t become detached in the process. They’re robustly attached, but I’m concerned that the regular placing and replacing might just see one or more parting company from the rails. I bet many of you readers have been through all this before; or perhaps I’m the only one who’s making a pig’s ear of something that should be relatively straight forward.

Here’s one (photo) of the wires dangling free in the chasm:

C8876662-6B9F-4BBB-ADB0-4A524B7382D8.jpeg

Another major job is to brush up all that saw dust. If I carry on like this, I’ll end up with more saw dust than baseboard.

Cheers for now.

Jonte
 

jonte

Western Thunderer
‘Jonte, you’re a .......(insert appropriate derogatory term/expletive)!’ and, ‘model railways are rubbish!’ screamed the voice inside my head as I endured yet another sleepless night.

They’re not of course, but I definitely am for even contemplating trying to pre-assemble everything before dropping into holes as asserted in my previous post. For instance, how was I going to maintain the curvature of that little insert of curved flexitrack that prefers being straight to bent, without upsetting the geometry? Frustration must have made me delirious is all I can submit in my defence. So I didn’t even bother trying.


No. The solution was to continue along the same lines.......but with even bigger holes for greater wiggle room. Obvious really. I could even make the ‘obvious’ sound a little more scientific by postulating that big holes are directly proportional to greater wiggle room. ‘And the constant of proportionality, Professor’ you probably won’t ask? Why, a bigger drill bit of course. So in the greater interest of human endeavour, out came my spade drill (another Buy and Queue offering: fire extinguisher at the ready), and as there’s no way that mere filler can reliably support itself over gorges of this magnitude, suitably sized inserts of silver linen will just have to mask them.

That sawdust pile was about to get bigger. So that was that. Decision made.

CD2438F9-D8AA-4FC2-9395-61231573B38E.jpeg

One thing I was right about though, was that several holes needed widening as a consequence of the wires attached, and one tie bar was way out of kilter and will need re-drilling, while another needed widening. For some reason, I must have lost my way with the plan as I found myself drilling a hole for a frog feed which wasn’t t needed, as the original had been in the right place after all! Not sure I have the concentration levels required for all this, fellow Westerners. Only one point out of seven fitted without alteration, fellow Westerners; I can now see why many modellers solder on the wires from the outside after the track is in situ.

One plus point of having widened the odd tie bar hole, is that it occurred to me that if I widen it too much, the solenoid motor plate (I’m using Peco) won’t straddle the hole as required but fall into it!

I mention this as it’s made me re-think my drilling plan, which I’ve imaginally called plan ‘b’. I reckon the solution, as with many of these things, will be the employ of a mixture of both plans ‘a’ (the pre-assembly of some sections) and ‘b’ (more wiggle room).

I’m still thinking on about all this, but initial thoughts could be to lift the first point- which to this juncture I’ve been using as a ‘fix’ for the others - and fix it last when the other bits have been preassembled. Don’t know. More indecision.

Btw, I hope nobody minds my frequent updates, but I find they help keep a record of where Im up to before my fading memory forgets, and remotely, it might just help some other poor Westerner that’s thinking of giving it a go.

Thanks for reading.

Jonte
 

jonte

Western Thunderer
Been a bit of a long day in the den, fellow Westerners, and whilst for the most part I cherish what little modelling time I have, today proved a bit of a chore.


After a light lunch, I returned to the layout looking - I shaln’t say eager - to put my plan (well a mixture of two plans actually) into action as described in my previous post. My apprehension proved unwarranted I’m pleased to report, as believe it or not, my amalgam of plans really did work.
Working away from the first point - as a train would enter the layout (the fixed one, still fixed down at this point) - along the lower of the two tracks, I lifted the points just enough to slip fish plate on to rail, and with the benefit of the odd one or two ‘extended, extended holes’ as mentioned earlier, I found that I had just enough wiggle room to join them without placing unnecessary strain on wires or track. Having reached the end of the lower track, I worked steadily back towards the first point along the upper track. Having successfully joined the ‘curved’ section (now not-so curved) to the final point in the line, I lifted the first (fixed) point as I’d hinted at earlier, which allowed me to create two joined up sections of track. Success! Even the curve returned to the curved section, probably due to the tight fit of the metal rail joiners keeping everything tight, I guess.


Looks like I do get the occasional brain wave after all, Westerners. It won’t last.


The photo(s) show the track just resting on the cork, totally unfixed:

902C8342-9220-4D14-BF4E-DBAD5436B718.jpeg 8BFE8D74-0C83-40DE-B09E-18D3F60A38FD.jpeg C2A08A30-698C-4D2D-B9B5-D27C706A8DF1.jpeg


The straight sections are just there to facilitate testing. It will remain in its unfitted state until (successful) testing has been achieved with both DC and DCC.


Actually, I was surprised that the ‘joining-up’ didn’t take as long as I thought, nor was it half the chore I expected, to be honest; it probably took longer to write it up!


But there was further angst to come, Westerners, isn’t there always? You see, the thought of going DCC filled me with dread, but up to now, it had been so far into the ‘distant’ distance, that - apart from buying a controller, the box of which I hadn’t even opened to examine the contents - I just chose to give it passing attention. Up to now! But now that I’d actually reached the point of layout control, I thought it was time to bite the bullet. But first I needed to know how to fit the darned thing to my nascent offering. Easier said than done for this Luddite. Remembering - just about - where I’d left it since it’s day of purchase, I was horrified to discover that this wasn’t the basic Bachmann EZ offering as I’d thought, and the subject of the Tony Wright DVD which had lain unwatched in a drawer since it arrived by post eons ago now, just in case .....well, you know how these things go.... and which I’d recently plucked up the courage to watch in its entirety for this very purpose. Btw, the matchsticks to keep eyes open as I’d anticipated, weren’t required, as to be fair, I rather enjoy Tony’s presentation style, and surprisingly, the notion wasn’t as difficult as I’d thought. However, I repeat: this was for the basic controller with traditional knob; what I’d bought was the all singing, all dancing Dynamis version, with its ‘wireless’ what-not, replete with neck hung harness. Sugar!


Following a quick change of underwear, I sat in the sun and emptied out the contents (of the box ;)). I had absolutely no idea what did what. But worst of all, I couldn’t even figure out the basic question: ‘how do I wire it my humble layout?’ Apart from a red wire with a jack plug on one end and a plastic ‘box’ with three rectangular holes in on t’other, there was nothing obvious as to how it might transfer power from hi-tech boxes to rail. B*ll*x!!


The accompanying instructions were less than useless in this regard, and the only hint at what might be required, were a couple of arrows marked ‘output connectors’ on a simple diagram pointing to the back of the ‘command centre’, bearing the legend: ‘3.5mm jack plug..’

21DF6DD9-ABAA-4F9E-A812-9A386B41EFBB.jpeg

A quick search threw up trillions of the darned things from myriad suppliers, but which? I went back to basics and did a search on Bachmann to determine whether the manufacturer provided the relevant parts. They didn’t. But what also came up were threads from a variety of fora that left me apoplectic. Apparently, said pins ain’t 3.5mm after all, but some in between size that the market doesn’t cater for! You can try the standard three point fives, but apparently service in the form of power is intermittent as they’re a loose fit. Some poor modellers have had to resort to holding them in place whilst playing trains...............


With the voice in my head screaming even louder derogatory terms about the hobby, and just before taking Dynamis to its final resting place in the form of the local authority nominated grey bin for non-recyclable rubbish, I decided to take a deep breath and stuck the kettle on.


Coffee in hand and settled into my garden chair, I dug out the iPad, and watched one, then two, then three YouTube videos about Dynamis , none of which could enlighten me as to how to connect it up to a layout that didn’t use their own brand of EZ Peasy track - apparently, that’s what the red wire replete with jack plug and box connector is for - so none the wiser, I continued my fruitless search. Imagine therefore my delight when there was none other than my old friend Tony Wright presenting a series of EZ Command vids: but this time, in relation to the Dynamis version. Back of the net! Three - or was it four - videos later I was still none the wiser, until mention was made of wiring it straight into his existing train set. ‘Now we’re onto something’. Or so I thought. Whilst treated to a flick of a fond steed traversing his pride and joy, punctuated with shots of he looking suitably impressed, all the while extolling the virtues of the system to his new best mate, Malcolm of Bachmann, not the slightest mention of how it was actually wired into his existing system was made. In desperation, I shouted desperate pleas at the screen, but sadly, Tony wasn’t listening.


I picked up the red wire - actually two wires as I discovered- and re-examined it. ‘What if I could remove the box connector from the end and wire that somehow to my ‘bus’ thingies?’ Now that might just work. Easier said the done, but with careful use of Stanley knife and small screwdriver - which slid off at one point and went straight under my finger nail causing me to breach the Queen’s Peace - I eventually succeeded, and was pleased to discover a sleeve connector on the end of each wire, which should making wiring in relatively straight forward:

18188C62-1588-43CD-8033-2716906D05FE.jpeg


That said, I don’t even know if that’s what they’re for and it might even short out the whole system. But you know what, fellow Westerners, I’m past caring. If it does, ces’t la vie! Be sure that I’ll let you know.


‘Nite.


Jonte
 

simond

Western Thunderer
Jonte,

what you want is a multimeter.

Failing that, a low voltage light bulb, a battery and a couple of bits of wire. At least you can then check circuits.

keep at it, you’re making progress!
Good luck
Simon
 

jonte

Western Thunderer
Jonte,

what you want is a multimeter.

Failing that, a low voltage light bulb, a battery and a couple of bits of wire. At least you can then check circuits.

keep at it, you’re making progress!
Good luck
Simon

And a beer !

Thus far, I’ve just used the ‘short’ indicator on the Gaugemaster for the purpose, but it’s probably not prudent:(

Thanks for your advice and encouragement, as usual, Simon.

Best,

Jonte
 

JimG

Western Thunderer
Jonte,

What you want is this :-

2-Way Plug-In PCB Screw Terminal Block 5.08mm

...which will plug into the two pin socket on the rear of the Dynamis and allow you to use whatever wire you want in the screw terminals. It's been many years since I got my Dynamis but I think the two pin plug was supplied with the equipment.

[Later] Make sure you get the plug with 5.08mm pitch pins - I've just checked my NCE PowerCab and that uses a similar style of plug on the output, but its pins are around 4mm pitch. You would need a pretty big hammer to make that fit. :):)

Jim.
 
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jonte

Western Thunderer
Jonte,

What you want is this :-

2-Way Plug-In PCB Screw Terminal Block 5.08mm

...which will plug into the two pin socket on the rear of the Dynamis and allow you to use whatever wire you want in the screw terminals. It's been many years since I got my Dynamis but I think the two pin plug was supplied with the equipment.

[Later] Make sure you get the plug with 5.08mm pitch pins - I've just checked my NCE PowerCab and that uses a similar style of plug on the output, but its pins are around 4mm pitch. You would need a pretty big hammer to make that fit. :):)

Jim.

Good morning and thank you, Jim!!

When you mentioned about the part being supplied with the kit, it struck a chord.

Story is, I popped into a rather homely model shop - now gone - in the Warrington area after purchasing a loco from an online auction site that refused to budge with my DC controller. The guy in the shop has an idea and placed it onto a demo track powered by a demo DCC unit. I recall he selected ‘3’ which prompted the 7F to burst into life. Mystery solved. He then kindly offered to exchange mine for a similar DC version/Black 5. For some reason, I decided to keep it, at which point he offered me the demo unit (Dynamis) for half price. So I agreed. He hastily collected up the bits and replaced in box while I parted with £75. Perhaps in his haste, he forgot to include the missing link.

Anyway, thank you for solving that one, Jim, and providing the link.

Even more so, thanks for reading.

Jonte

Edit: ordered ! :thumbs:
 
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