Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[LarryG]

There was something about the old classes like the 2P's that got oldies like me into railways in the first place. 4-4-0's like the 2P were something from a past era and were really something to bag after the mid 1950's. By 1960, "It's only a Black Five" was a sentiment that summed up how many of us felt and how much the steam scene had changed in only a decade. Of course I am speaking for the L.M. and Scottish regions...

 

[oldravendale]

I agree there, Larry. In fact "it's only a Black 5" is a sentiment I was going to share when I put up the next photo. As far as freight was concerned "it's only an 8F" was the most common comment and we used to look out for the occasional G2 or G2a, a very few of which were still at Willesden in the very early '60s.

B

 

[Ian@StEnochs]

Moving on to "Stranraer MPD. July 1957." Midland 2P 4-4-0 40611 which was withdrawn from Stranraer in September 1959 and scrapped April 1961. 40611 and 40616 were the 2P residents at Stranraer at this time - 40616 was withdrawn a little earlier, in July 1959.
View attachment 134623

Brian

Stranraer is a very small shadow of its former self. Effectively a siding from Castle Kennedy with the Pier station box switched out. The removal of the Irish ferries from Stranraer to non rail connected Cairn Ryan has decimated the passenger traffic and there has been no freight for years.

The 2Ps did good work on the hills, despite their big wheels, and are used to pilot some of the heavier trains. I remember going to Scout camp in Ireland when we travelled from Ayr to Stranraer on the Northern Irishman. Train engine was a Standard 5 but piloted from Ayr with a 2P. I recall that we had a coach to ourselves, I don't know what type it was but there were 3 or 4 compartments with a corridor joining them and a single toilet! LNER of some type perhaps?

Ian.

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you Ian. That's just the sort of memory that brings these photos alive.

I'm going to be out for a lot of tomorrow so here's another offering. Another "Stranraer. 1957". I'm guessing that it's another shot in the July in which case this loco is not even a year old. As far as I can tell it was always a Dumfries engine. 76072 was withdrawn in October 1964 and scrapped in May 1965 at Shipbreaking Industries (Faslane) after the scandalously short life of 8 years and 12 days.



Brian

 

[Culreoch]

Thanks for the Galloway photos - this last photo of 76072 being particularly timely as I've just finished her partner-in-crime at Dumfries, no. 76073. Yet to get my bearings with that picture, but I think 76072 is running onto shed at Stranraer.

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you Jamie. That little nugget will be added to the available info which in fairness, is not much. I think you commented too, Larry, but I can't find it now so maybe you considered your comment a bit harsh. One's views of particular classes are so dependent on circumstances, aren't they? For myself I thought most of the standard classes were well proportioned and functional, not to damn them with faint praise (except possibly the "Clans"). The exception may be considered to be the 9F which was probably the finest freight and later mixed traffic and occasional express loco we probably ever built within these shores. However, Larry, the fact that they replaced many of our favourites cannot be denied.

Anyway, moving on, this is only another bloomin' Black 5. Many, if not most, recognise how go0d the Black 5s were and one has to admit that they are a good looking and well proportioned if not inspiring design. In fact I actually made the relatively short trip to Tring Station in the summer to see "just another Black 5" pass through, and lovely it was as well.

We know it's a Scottish loco from the large cab side number if nothing else. It's titled "Stranraer. July 1957." 45266 was a Hurlford loco at the time and was withdrawn from there at the end of December 1962. Apparently it was scrapped some 12 months later.


Brian

 

[LarryG]

I stand by what I said, but I occasionally delete my posts after a while if I regard them as passing conversations.

As a machine, I cannot fault the Black five. I had one once on the Saturday Ashton Oldham Road job. It was a case of hiding it (it wasn't ours). 45266 looks to have been given a later boiler with sloping throatplate. (I have mislaid my Black Fives book).

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

My dad used to tell me a different story about the LMS Black Vs.

He used to be a frequent traveller from St.Pancras and if he saw one at the head of a train he knew it was going to be a poor run with the train ending up late.

 

[Dangerous Davies]

Peter Smith speaks very highly of Black 5's in his book "Mendips Engineman" which recounts his time working on the S&D. He also refers to BoB and WC Pacifics ability to loose their feet including one serious instance in Devonshire Tunnel.
Dave

 

[oldravendale]

Another Scottish loco, given away again by the large cab side number. This, again, is "Stranraer MPD. July 1957". 42909 was a Dumfries engine until 1964 when it moved to Ayr and was withdrawn in January 1966. It was scrapped in June 1966 at Arnott Young (Ayr). The Crabs were a Marmite loco type, I reckon. However, that they were successful there can be little denying and were powerful for their size.



Brian

 

[LarryG]

Brian, Tim Mills has framed the loco nicely, and I couldn't resist 'tampering' seeing as I like the 'Crabs' so much. Will remove if you wish. They were as common as Black Puddings in the North West of England. While having one on the front of your train was a delight, it more often as not meant a plodding journey. Good modelling detail in the foreground too....

 

[Ian@StEnochs]

Another Scottish loco, given away again by the large cab side number. This, again, is "Stranraer MPD. July 1957". 42909 was a Dumfries engine until 1964 when it moved to Ayr and was withdrawn in January 1966. It was scrapped in June 1966 at Arnott Young (Ayr). The Crabs were a Marmite loco type, I reckon. However, that they were successful there can be little denying and were powerful for their size.

View attachment 134668

Brian

They were always known as 'Moguls' in Ayrshire by railway men but crab did creep in among enthusiasts.
Arnott Young scrapped locos at Troon shipyard, just a few miles north of Ayr. A few Duchesses and Scots met their fate among the other lower orders there!
The Moguls lasted to the end of steam on the Ayrshire coalfield. I remember them on the empty wagons to Killoch colliery which I could see from my Grandparents home. 40+ wagons was normal and progress was very slow especially on the last slope up to the pit. Easy back with the fulls! Downhill all the way to Ayr harbour. The drivers preferred the Moguls to a Black Five, better brakes!

Ian.

 

[oldravendale]

Tamper away, Larry and please don't remove. That's a bit too light for my subjective taste but it picks up additional shadow detail for sure. I remember them well, although we never had that many at the London end of things.

Useful additional comments too, Ian. Duly added to the info on this photo.

Next is a proper Scottish loco. There are two images of the same loco at the same location so I've paired them up. Both are "Stranraer MPD. July 1957." 57238 was a Drummond/Caledonian Railway 294 "Jumbo" (at least until somebody corrects me!) and moved to Stranraer in 1955. It was withdrawn in Sept 1961 and scrapped in March 1962. Behind is Standard 5 73101. It was a Corkerhill loco withdrawn at the end of August 1966 and scrapped in November 1966 at Motherwell Machinery and Scrap (Wishaw).

Some nice pit detail in the first shot and puddles in the second.



Sad news during my phone call yesterday which I can pass on as Tim doesn't read this directly. His last chemo has not worked and he's been given until April. I'm saddened as he'll not see all those images he never had printed - no, that's not the main reason but in view of his generosity in making such a fabulous collection available to us it's one reason we can all share. He's been delighted with the comments made about certain of his pictures and I was particularly pleased when he said he'd never seen a print from the neg of the "semi" at Euston which includes the two friends with whom he travelled the country and which he printed this year to go with their Christmas cards. I'll now be pushing on with scanning as many of his negs as I can in the next few months as these images together with over fifty years as a colleague working towards the preservation of what has become the Great Central Railway at Loughborough has been the basis of our friendship and there are some stories and photos to be shared about that in years to come.

We'll be the poorer for his passing.

Brian

 

[JimG]

57238 was a Drummond/Caledonian Railway 294 "Jumbo" (at least until somebody corrects me!)

Spot on. No.350 in Caledonian days and built in 1883 during Drummond's reign at St. Rollox. So 79 years of service!!! I dare say in that long time you could consider them a sort of "Trigger's Broom" with modifications in Caledonian days, and changes in LMS days (rivetted smokebox). The wheels and the cab might have stayed the same. The stove pipe lum was a fate that befell a lot of ex-Caledonian locomotives, presumably the Drummond capuchons having rusted away. It was one of this class which was the last steam loco I saw going through Dumbarton on North Clydeside, running with only a brake van. That would have been the early sixties.

Jim.

 

[oldravendale]

Thanks Jim. Some great bits of detail and a reminisce too. Perfect!

For today a nice portrait of a Scottish Standard 5, big cab side number and all. Again "Stranraer MPD. July 1957." 73123 was a Corkerhill loco for all its short life, introduced in February 1956 and withdrawn in May 1965 after which it went to Motherwell Machinery and Scrap (Wishaw) where it was finally disposed of in the following July.



Brian

 

[robertm]

Very sad news about Tim.
When you next speak with him would you please mention how much pleasure his photos have given me and I assume many more.
Bob

 

[adrian]

For today a nice portrait of a Scottish Standard 5, big cab side number and all.

I do like that - it's something different to the usual portraits - it feels a little more intimate almost like a private little tryst behind the back of the shed.

 

[JimG]

It also reminds me of my teenage years at the time. I was fifteen in 1957 and thought the new standard locomotives were the bees knees. I had a large poster on my wall

British Railways Locomotives | Science Museum Group Collection

...and had them all ticked off in my Observers Book of British locomotives to scratchbuild - nothing like hope springing eternal. My nom de plume in the school magazine was "73001" which was the Standard 5 on the front of the GEM catalogue of the time. That was then followed by the North Clydeside electrification and the Blue Trains. I didn't start getting interested in pre-Grouping Scottish lines until ten years later.

Sorry to hear about Tim. His Scottish pictures are bringing back memories.

Jim.

 

[oldravendale]

I remember that poster, Jim, and lusted after it. Another little gem to attach.....

Bob - thanks so much for that kind comment. I'll pass it on to Tim when we next speak. And Adrian - I agree about the happy interpretation of the scene Tim has captured.

Again, "Stranraer MPD. July 1957" but this couldn't be more different to the previous shot. This is 54508, a Pickersgill/Caledonian Railway Class 72 4-4-0 built by North British in 1922. It was transferred to Stranraer stock in December 1956 and withdrawn in December 1959, not being scrapped until July 1964, so where did it languish for over four years? It is, in fact, recorded as withdrawn in Stranraer shed through 1961, 62 and 63 although not there in June 1964 and strangely not recorded on shed in June 1960.



Brian

 

[Ian@StEnochs]

Another gem Brian. Interesting too that Tim has captured an 8f in the background. The 8fs were not very common on the Sou West area. If a 2-8-0 was needed it was more likely a WD.

Ian.