Richard's Workbench - Adams' Radial Tank

Dikitriki

Flying Squad
Hi,

This is in the nature of a quick diversion as I needed a simple chassis to test a new motor. I do in fact have 2 of these to do, both Chowbent kits.

The chassis and rods are milled and held together with square section spacers. Pretty archaic, pretty foolproof and very quick. Only it wasn't what I wanted. There is a huge amount of daylight under the boiler, and with Joy valvegear filling the space, inside valve gear was a must. Which meant the front 2 spacers had to go, and all bar one of the huge plunger pick-up holes had to be filled.

Also - a first for me, I decided to fit the bearings and detail the side frames before putting the chassis together. I used a Hobby Holidays chassis jig to get the bearing centres correct. There was a further complication in that, since I was doing a crank axle (later), I had to be able to drop the centre axle. And since there is little enough room inside the chassis anyway for hornguides, I had to use the chassis sideframe as a the hornguides and cut them to fit a bearing - no room for error here.

P1010132a.jpg

P1010140a.jpg

I used nickel silver strip to keep them from rotating, and made the springs screw in so I could disassemble everything later. The pick-up holes in the chassis were filled with rod of the appropriate diameter and the spacer holes were filled with the countersunk screws, both sides being filed back and finished with wet and dry to eliminate the file marks.

P1010131a.jpg

The removable spring had a set introduced to the hangers so that it was in the same plane when viewed along the chassis.

P1010139.JPG

And a check both sideframes and rods were to the same wheelbase.

P1010127a.jpg

P1010128a.jpg

Richard
 

Martin Shaw

Western Thunderer
I think the A5 chassis, when it arrives will be something like this, but a couple of questions. I presume the centre bearing has a circular slot hence the need for anti rotation devices. Would it not be possible to mill a slot in either side of the axlebox to create horns and use the frame material as horn guides, then it couldn't rotate, or is this too precise to reasonably achieve. Secondly are you going to joint the coupling rods?
Regards
Martin
 
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Dikitriki

Flying Squad
Hi Martin,

If you have ordered a Premier Components chassis, that's exactly what you will get.

You are correct, the centre bearing does have a circular slot. I was using a commercial product - from Meteor Models - and to the best of my knowledge, all commercial hornblocks have circular slots. There's no reason why you can't make your own with a milled linear slot; I do not have the equipment. At least with my nickel silver strips, if I have gone slightly wrong in the cutting of the slot, I can use the strips to adjust the centres:) .Not that I needed to of course......

As to jointed rods, I might. I'm not that fussed as the reason for being able to drop them was solely to fit inside valve gear, not to spring the axle, though that would be easy enough to do with steel wire bearing on the top of the hornblock. The tender picks up off all (sprung) axles so intermittent pick up from the centre driver is not an issue.

Richard
 

Martin Shaw

Western Thunderer
Richard
It's actually coming from JPL, but I guess there's not much between them. I have an ill thought out long term plan to produce horn guides and axleboxes but I need a milling machine for that. Personally I'm not convinced that etched components are inherently accurate enough, although plenty seem to make them work.
Right, I understand your thinking, I wish you luck with Mr Joy's mechanical contrivance. I will follow this with interest.
Regards
Martin
 

Dikitriki

Flying Squad
Moving on a bit, the chassis has been assembled on the chassis jig.

P1010150a.jpg

P1010151a.jpg
I screwed the front spacer in place only, and once the rear spacer was soldered in place, I fitted a plate spacer at the front reinforced with angle underneath, removed the front spacer and then filled the spacer holes with the countersunk screws. With only the rear spacer and front plate holding everything together, the centre part of the chassis was far too flexible, so I fitted the front of the ashpan, again reinforced with angle. This now gives me a strong chassis with clear space for the inside valve gear.

The motor and gearbox was fitted to drive the rear axle with the motor vertical in the firebox. Nice and compact, I have enough space in the front of the firebox and ashpan for chip and cube speaker. A spacer was made to constrain the rotation of the gearbox which is totally hidden in the ashpan.

P1010152a.jpg

Pick ups: I shorted out the one side, the far side in above photo. The near side has a plunger pick up on the rear and a bus bar on the outside top of the chassis from copperclad to which 2 strips of phosphor-bronze are soldered to bear on the back of the tread. This will be invisible under the valance, and means there is nothing to obscure, physically or visually, the inside valve gear.

P1010153a.jpg
P1010155a.jpg
I shall now do a DC test just to check all is OK, then chip it and give it a serious bash on Heyside.

Richard
 

Dikitriki

Flying Squad
Hi,

I'm well into the testing phase now. A little video:


The initial chassis only section was the DC test. Given the lightness of the chassis and the fact this was the first time the chassis had been run, I felt it was promising. The chassis was then chipped, and set out on a 3 hour run. This section of the video was 3 minutes into the run with a light empty minerals train. We are, as I type, 2 hrs 15 minutes in and it's now on a heavy 6 coach train. I shall stop it at 3 hours, take another video to show how smooth and quiet it is, and then see how warm (or not) the motor is. I'm certainly impressed so far.

Richard
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Richard.

Is this the SDMP gearbox you built and described in your slightly earlier posting? I may be adding 2 + 2 and making 5 but the motor looks to be the same. Also, is this a Canon motor?

Brian
 

Dikitriki

Flying Squad
Hello Brian,

It is. This is the test chassis for that motor and gearbox. I don't know the make - there are no identifying marks (that I can decipher) on the casing. Steph will know more I'm sure.

Richard
 

Dikitriki

Flying Squad
Hi,

I'm going to wrap this up now. The subsequent videos I took didn't work - the battery was too low.

So, the heavy 6 coach train proved too much for the motor. It stalled about 3 minutes before I was going to call a halt, just before the 3 hour mark. The overload cut out in the chip did not trip, so the motor was stalled under power for a few minutes before I noticed. There was a significant smell of overheated windings, and I suspected I had damaged the motor.

The following day, still with a smelly motor, I reran the test, but without the 6 coach train. It ran for 2 hours on the minerals and was fine, much to my surprise, very smooth throughout the speed range. At the end, the motor was warm, but not hot.

My conclusion is that this is a very good little motor, well suited to early locos and industrials with restricted space, probably up to something like a pannier tank. I don't see many people running it for 3 hours continuously, or on 6 coach trains. I consider that I abused the motor and it held up well. We will be stocking it, and its brethren, but only for sale with our gearboxes.

Richard
 

Dikitriki

Flying Squad
.....so, after that interlude, onto the real matter in hand.

My next task is to build a Finney7 Adams' Radial. It is to be number 519, a Dubs built example, in LSWR days. In fact, there is a splendid picture of just this loco here LSWR 0415 class 519. It is to be radio controlled, so I am a little concerned about the hardware fitting in such a compact loco, but we will see.

I have made a start on the bogie, and the components are laid out in this picture:

P1010157a.jpg

The instructions suggest that the spring laminations should be trapped between the two equalising beams as a single operation, but I built the springs first as I felt it would look better with the 3 pieces of each spring blended together as one, something that cannot be done at a later stage.

P1010162a.jpg
P1010166a.jpg
Next stage is to put the bogie together.

Richard
 

Beejay

New Member
Richard

This is the RC unit I have in my Finney Radial. I use a 9v PP3 battery and a Deltang receiver and it all fits in the bunker. A Lipo 2 or 3s would probably have to go in the boiler. Big test now is to see if I can post a picture!
Johns_pic4_zpsuwbtllmd.jpg

It seems I can..

The extended water filler contains the on off switch and a charging point made from mini 2 way connectors.
Hope this helps on the RC front

john
 

Dikitriki

Flying Squad
That is helpful John,

What motor and gearbox are you using? Do you know yet what run time you will get between charges?

Richard
 

Beejay

New Member
Richard

The motor in this is a RG7. I use this battery/Rx combination in a few locos with either an RG7 or a Mashima with fold up gearbox. I have had them running on a rolling road for over 3 hours at a time. This one had a run on the west country S7 test track for a while and only stopped because I had forgotten to program out the minimum voltage cut off which had a default setting of 7.2v. It would be interesting to see how yours goes with a load as your layout is a little bigger than my shunting plank!
I do intend to experiment with Lipo 2s batteries next. Hopefully with the SDMP gearbox when I get around to making it.

John
 

richard carr

Western Thunderer
Richard have you thought about going battery powered DCC.

I have just like the real thing 37 powered up that way and my MOK Ivatt 4 is going to get the same treatment.
The 37 uses 8 AAA batteries with a 12 volt regulator to give 12 volts dc to the decoder. It has an ABC gearbox and Maxon motor

I have an Adams radial tank (a finney one) that is setup for Red Arrow, it uses 7 AAA powereing an RG7, it lasts for ages.

Richard
 

Dikitriki

Flying Squad
Richard

The motor in this is a RG7. I use this battery/Rx combination in a few locos with either an RG7 or a Mashima with fold up gearbox. I have had them running on a rolling road for over 3 hours at a time. This one had a run on the west country S7 test track for a while and only stopped because I had forgotten to program out the minimum voltage cut off which had a default setting of 7.2v. It would be interesting to see how yours goes with a load as your layout is a little bigger than my shunting plank!
I do intend to experiment with Lipo 2s batteries next. Hopefully with the SDMP gearbox when I get around to making it.

John

Thanks John, that's very positive. This one will be fitted with the Deltang system and a Maxon motor with ABC gearbox. The brief is for it to be able haul 5 brass coaches on the level and negotiate 5 ft radius curves.

Richard have you thought about going battery powered DCC.

I have just like the real thing 37 powered up that way and my MOK Ivatt 4 is going to get the same treatment.
The 37 uses 8 AAA batteries with a 12 volt regulator to give 12 volts dc to the decoder. It has an ABC gearbox and Maxon motor

I have an Adams radial tank (a finney one) that is setup for Red Arrow, it uses 7 AAA powereing an RG7, it lasts for ages.

Richard

Thank you Richard. I/we am currently considering battery powered DCC for Heyside. My DCC adviser (Tim - TheSnapper) has pointed me in the direction of the DRS1 transmitter and receiver, so we shall be investigating that further. It would be good for outside too.

Richard
 

Dikitriki

Flying Squad
I've now commenced working on the chassis.

As always, the first thing to do is to laminate the coupling rods and blend the separate pieces together. Just careful filing and polishing, but I did file off the etched corks and replace them with 0.5mm brass wire.

P1010183a.jpg

P1010185a.jpg

I then used the rods to set up the chassis jig. I departed from the (sound) instructions by attaching the hornguides to each side separately rather than once the frames were assembled. The accuracy tesy is that the mainframes slide easily on the hornblocks when they are on the jig.

P1010182a.jpg

P1010181b.jpg

One thing that does need doing is to mark the hornblocks so they fit the same way up in the individual hornguide at all times. I just engrave the axle number and right or left on the top surface of each one - before I start to assemble the hornguides to the chassis.

P1010178a.jpg

Having got that far, it's on the the assembly of the frames next.

Richard
 
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