Finney7 Hall Class Build

Discussion in 'Workbenches, including workshop techniques.' started by Focalplane, 13 November 2019.

  1. Focalplane

    Focalplane Western Thunderer

    I am starting this thread only because I am traveling and I have the tender kit with me and my riveting tool. I really shouldn't be doing this but the thought of carrying a large and therefore non-portable tool kit/bench with me is, well, quite absurd. Just think how many parts I could lose along the way! As it is, riveting is a useful exercise in keeping me busy while waiting for deliveries of supplies, etc. I'll show some progress in the days ahead.

    The tender is a standard Collett 4,000 gallon one which is similar to the David Andrews one I just painted in primer for 5014 Goodrich Castle. It will be interesting to compare the two kits once I really get started on assembling the kit.

    Finney7 instructions are not exactly the same as David Andrews' are but both get the job done, F7 using photos, DA using isometric drawings.

    Note that the Hall is 4965 Rood Ashton Hall, now a preserved Tyseley loco. It currently runs with a 3,500 gallon tender but in my world it was based in 84E in 1957 with the larger tender.
  2. Focalplane

    Focalplane Western Thunderer

    I paid the extra for all nickel silver etches. The tender requires three etches as shown below.




    I am riveting in the recommended order of construction which helps me to understand how I will proceed once the etches are pulled apart and construction begins. I am not removing any etch pieces yet.

    The guides for the rivets are very small and positioning the riveting die in the etched guides needs more care than on other kits. It may be that my riveting die has become a little blunt over the years but this is not a problem yet. The end result, though, is that the pressed out rivets are finer than with other kits. Or is it the nickel silver? I am not sure which.

    The etches do not have the part numbers etched on them but the instructions do have labels. The instructions also list which parts are on each etch which is useful, making them quicker to locate. A small but useful thought by the kit and instruction designers.
  3. Genghis

    Genghis Western Thunderer

    I strongly suspect that the finer rivets are down to both the material and the smaller half-etched detail. If I have an order for a nickel silver kit where I need to do some rivet pressing before boiler rolling I usually find that the nisil rivets are finer than those on the same thickness brass sheets embossed at the same time. Some designers incorporated smaller diameter half-etched holes than others and these tend to result in finer rivets. Understandable when you think of the volume of material to be moved (and the higher stiffness of nisil).
    You'll enjoy this build.

    Edit for clarity.
    Last edited: 14 November 2019
    AdeMoore, Focalplane and 3 LINK like this.
  4. Dikitriki

    Dikitriki Flying Squad

    Hi Paul,

    One great advantage of the smaller half-etched rivet guides is that the rows of rivets are much more likely to be straight, even without a fence of some description.

    I cut my teeth on the Jim Harris half-etched 'saucers' rivets and it was a real challenge to keep the rows looking (reasonably) straight!

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  5. Focalplane

    Focalplane Western Thunderer

    Thanks, David and Richard, for your input. My "rivet-er" is MetalSmiths tool with a replaceable die so I could either replace it (before Dave Sharp retires) or simply sharpen it. But it really isn't a problem just yet and as Richard says, the rivets do line up nicely, much better than my efforts of the Moor Street traverser plates though I have ideas about improving that on the second traverser.

    I also have a mammoth task ahead on Warren Shephard's 3500 gallon tender - no half etched rivet guides! Warren does suggest the alternative of an early Churchward flush riveted tender but my planned loco (5399) had a later riveted one so that is going to be interesting!

    EDIT: See below, It should indeed be Dave Smith, I have got the two mixed up several times, last time at Telford!
    Last edited: 14 November 2019
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  6. lankytank

    lankytank Western Thunderer

    Might be better to talk to Dave Smith rather than Dave Sharp...… :thumbs:
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  7. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    The Warren Shephard kits usually come with a photo copied sheet that has the rivet pattern on, you stick it on the back and punch the black dots.

    I gave up on the County.........
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  8. Focalplane

    Focalplane Western Thunderer

    Yep there’s one in the box but only for the tender sides. The Mogul will probably be what Tony Wright calls a layout loco.
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  9. Focalplane

    Focalplane Western Thunderer

    All the tender's rivets have been formed so here are two photos. The first is of punched rivets on the coal hopper:


    The second is of etched rivets on the tender sides:


    Also evidence of a few finger prints!

    The coal hopper rivets were the most difficult to form and it looks like I may have missed one. Which is a lot better than punching one where it should not be! They also appear to be slightly smaller than the etched rivets.

    Now the rivets are punched there is not much I can do for a fortnight. But you never know.
    3 LINK, LarryG, 7mmMick and 5 others like this.
  10. Peter Cross

    Peter Cross Western Thunderer

    I use the GW press. The punches and dies for it are 3/16" It comes with dies for 2, 4, and 7mm, I have made another couple to give bigger rivets, using silversteel it hardens and tempers easily. It also came with a very acutely pointed punch for doing etched kits.
  11. Focalplane

    Focalplane Western Thunderer

    I forgot I even started this thread!

    Now the tender build has begun and the chassis and hanging plate assembly are complete:

    09ECC3A3-F38E-4548-B751-4D64FA24A244.jpeg 5965F3A4-819D-4B79-A48B-E9146B2131AF.jpeg

    The brass version for the 47xx now needs to be brought up to date.
  12. Focalplane

    Focalplane Western Thunderer

    In no time at all the basic tank and coal hopper have been soldered:


    That’s it folks for this evening.
  13. Focalplane

    Focalplane Western Thunderer

    Quite a lot done on the tank and coal hopper today:


    The tank top is only soldered down at the far end (rear).