A RTR G3 Manning Wardle 'H' Class?

Lindsay of Oz

Lindsay of Oz

Member
Hi all,
I am new to Western Thunder, and this G3 forum, so a short introduction is in order. I am Lindsay O'Reilly, 60 yrs old, Australian, a high school Visual Arts teacher by trade (31 years) but now working as the Registrar in my school in the Hunter Valley region of NSW. I am also one of the three partners in and owners of Ixion Model Railways, incorporated in both the UK and Australia. We are best known in the UK for our 7mm scale TRT Hudswell Clarke 0-6-0ST and Fowler 0-4-0DM locos, and for our other locos in N gauge (GWR Manor, On30 (SAR Coffee Pot railmotor) and currently a run of Australian engines in HO, starting with the NSWGR C32 Class 4-6-0.
One of our most famous models, though, has become our limited run RTR brass 'H' Class Manning Wardle in 7mm scale (photos of the pilot models, and our UK partner Chris Klein's weathered example below.) We only made 100 for sale, and second-hand ones are highly sought after.

A few years ago I floated the idea of a finescale RTR version of this in Gauge 3, to deafening silence from the Gauge 3 Society, but I'm wondering whether it's worth raising it here again. A few basic plot points to guide the discussion:

1. The loco would be made in the same factory in China as the 7mm version, to the same standards.
2. The loco would probably come out under the Pioneer Models branding, as Ixion really has been in enough scales already!
3. Funding would be provided either by crowdfunding - the most likely method, via Kickstarter or a similar platform - or, if we can find a sponsor with deep pockets, then for sale to any and all interested.
4. Price? No idea!! Our brass factory will make 5, or 10 or 40, or 30... but obviously the price per unit goes down, the larger the order. I can make general enquiries, but it's really just wasting their time to ask for a quote if no-one seriously wants one. The 7mm version sold for about GBP420 quite a few years ago, so 800-950 quid might be a ballpark figure.
Timing? Impossible to say - a year to 18 months, maybe, if people are excited and have the cash ready to hand.

What do you think?

Ixion+MW+H+class+brass.jpg



Ixion%2BManning%2BWardle%2BBlack%2Bfront%2B(Small).jpg


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Mike W

Mike W

Western Thunderer
Hi Lindsay, nice to see you on here.

If you and Barry can get going quickly, the best place to launch the idea is the large G3 show in Bedfordshire next Saturday but, as you will know, it needs to be a full on plan seeking firm support and there are only a few days to go. The best G3 modellers are probably on here, the G3 forum doesn't see many members, but next Saturday will see most of them.

Mike
 
Lindsay of Oz

Lindsay of Oz

Member
Mike W said:
Hi Lindsay, nice to see you on here.

If you and Barry can get going quickly, the best place to launch the idea is the large G3 show in Bedfordshire next Saturday but, as you will know, it needs to be a full on plan seeking firm support and there are only a few days to go. The best G3 modellers are probably on here, the G3 forum doesn't see many members, but next Saturday will see most of them.

Mike
Click to expand...
Hi Mike, in Australia we'd say there was Buckley's Chance (i.e., none) of having a proposal for next weekend, I've sent Barry an overview of our 2013 factory quote, but prices have risen significantly in China in the last six years, so a whole new quote would be required.
They already have all the drawings and photos from when we did the 7mm one, so turnaround would be a sensible length of time; in 2013 we asked for a quote on 25 locos, and got one for 50, their preferred production run size! But is there seriously any likelihood of selling 50 painted, RTR G3 0-4-0 Manning Wardles? Our specs included on-board battery power with recharging point, provision (room) for firing radio control, and easy conversion to 2-rail pickup if desired.

What track power do you all use? 12V DC or 24V DC?
 
lankytank

lankytank

Western Thunderer
Lindsay

Track power in the UK is, shall we say, negligible, you either set fire to them & launch them or it's on board radio control..... :thumbs:

Think you'll be over optimistic with a figure of 50 units, you'll likely sell 25 units, but it won't be an over night thing.

There's a small group looking at producing an L&Y Pug 0-4-0 but it's in the true cottage industry mould. I believe they've had 'promises' of 15 ish & are quite buoyed up with that figure - time will tell.

At this stage, I would say 'hold that thought'.....
 
geoff_nicholls

geoff_nicholls

Western Thunderer
I guess somewhere between 12 and 24V DC. I believe most G3 modellers use RC, so you would need to supply it track powered, but with space for us to fit batteries, receiver and switches. In my opinion you should concentrate more on the G scale modellers, encouraging them to add standard gauge feeders to their layouts. They are mostly track powered. There are a lot more of them than us. We need to recruit them and your loco would be excellent for that.
At the price proposed, I'm sure it would sell well. I would buy one.
 
Lindsay of Oz

Lindsay of Oz

Member
Thanks for the feedback so far - please contribute your ideas, however conservative or crazy!

In the meantime, and as a question without notice, does any know the wheelbase (axle centre to axle centre) of the Slater's G3 kits?
My modelling mate and I are looking to see whether there are any existing chassis and/or brake and running gear that could be utilised to model our local Hunter Valley coal hoppers, which typically had an 8'6" wheelbase for the 10-ton hoppers, and 11'6" for the 12 1/2 ton version. Are there any other chassis available that would have those dimensions?
IMG_0882.PNG IMG_0878.PNG
 
Lindsay of Oz

Lindsay of Oz

Member
IMG_0828.PNG
Jon Nazareth said:
Lindsy
This may be stating the obvious but, are you modelling these in G3? If so, I like the look of No. 6.

Jon
Click to expand...
Hi Jon,
There were over 13,000 of these so-called "non-air" hoppers built to move coal from the NSW Hunter Valley mines to the port in Newcastle - which is still the world's largest coal exporting port in 2019. They came in a bewildering variety of variations, but were all either 10 tons or 12 1/2 tons in capacity. They were marked for the colliery or company that owned them. The two in the photos have been restored, but if you Google 'Hunter Valley non-air hopper' or the 'Richmond Vale Railway' (where they were hauled by 13 ex-GC Robinson ROD 2-8-0s) you'll get a picture of their ubiquity and use. I have emailed Andy Mould at Woodbury Models, and he thinks they'd be a straightforward kit to do in laser-cut timber with etched details. I am selecting a prototype - I have some good drawings- so 'Yes', I hope very much to make a small rake in Gauge 3. I might pass on building 13,000 though!
 
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Spitfire2865

Spitfire2865

Western Thunderer
lankytank said:
There's a small group looking at producing an L&Y Pug 0-4-0 but it's in the true cottage industry mould. I believe they've had 'promises' of 15 ish & are quite buoyed up with that figure - time will tell.
Click to expand...
Who do I have to sell my soul to to put my name on that 'promise' list?

But going back to the topic at hand, yeah it may be difficult to fit battery RC into the tiny MW. If the boiler/tank is perfectly hollow, you may be able to fit 12v worth of batteries in there, but not much left for the motor, receiver, esc, and assorted parts, let alone a speaker as many opt for.
If this were to go through, I wouldnt be surprised if someone tried to fit a boiler in one! But at near £900, I certainly wouldnt be first to put a knife to it.
 
Mike W

Mike W

Western Thunderer
As Barry said, I think you would sell 25, but 50 would probably be very difficult. Geoff's point about G scale is valid but also remember Kingscale, most of whose sales seem to have gone to people with glass cases and are never seen in Gauge 3 or G Scale circles - so some Mannings might go to similar customers. But unlike Kingscale's £3K-£6K price you couldn't justify their advertising budget. But I also think it needs to have batteries - and leave customers to fit the R/C of their choice. Yes, I'd buy one and when you have the exact price, spec etc, if I can help drum up interest please ask.

Mike
 
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