7mm US model dabblings
- Thread starter Jordan
- Start date
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Dave, on the whole I'm not inclined to disagree, it's the smaller outer section that's too flat in my mind.
None of these are Dash 8's of course, all later Dash 9's and one AC44, however the cab profile remains the same through out.
Just to clarify, the gull wing roof was designed to allow the engines to work under certain coal loaders. It was only a handful of loaders and the Dash 8's rarely worked those trains, plus, I believe the loaders were modified over time negating the cab profile, but it didn't stop GE making nearly 2000 engines with this profile for ATSF and shortly after, BNSF.
It's a shame the Dash 9 is too different, phase II cab, six tread safety steps and an extra 2'-6" in length (increased radiator length) from the Dash 8 as one of these would look nice.
They're getting a bit grubby now but there's more of these ATSF heritage units than former SP units kicking around and these Dash 9's do sound really good with their non Tier regulated emissions constrictions.
The Dash 8 could go to P48 but I think the AC6 is a step too far with it's near solid frames, you'd need to mill the sides I think to get the gauge reduction required.
None of these are Dash 8's of course, all later Dash 9's and one AC44, however the cab profile remains the same through out.
Just to clarify, the gull wing roof was designed to allow the engines to work under certain coal loaders. It was only a handful of loaders and the Dash 8's rarely worked those trains, plus, I believe the loaders were modified over time negating the cab profile, but it didn't stop GE making nearly 2000 engines with this profile for ATSF and shortly after, BNSF.
It's a shame the Dash 9 is too different, phase II cab, six tread safety steps and an extra 2'-6" in length (increased radiator length) from the Dash 8 as one of these would look nice.
They're getting a bit grubby now but there's more of these ATSF heritage units than former SP units kicking around and these Dash 9's do sound really good with their non Tier regulated emissions constrictions.
The Dash 8 could go to P48 but I think the AC6 is a step too far with it's near solid frames, you'd need to mill the sides I think to get the gauge reduction required.
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mickoo
Western Thunderer
It is rather isn't itHas the definition of dabbling changed? This is getting serious. They will look good in P48 though.
richard carr
Western Thunderer
I love the cab forward Mick , they are just gorgeous, I'd love to have one.
Very envious
Richard
Very envious
Richard
Another drool for the cab forward.
I made a special stop off in Sacramento just to see what I think is the only remaining survivor in the museum there. It is humongous..... when I visited it was manned by an old driver who was happy to see the Brit interested in his old girl. Definitely worth a visit for those who have never been there.
David
I made a special stop off in Sacramento just to see what I think is the only remaining survivor in the museum there. It is humongous..... when I visited it was manned by an old driver who was happy to see the Brit interested in his old girl. Definitely worth a visit for those who have never been there.
David
Overseer
Western Thunderer
I wasn't serious about seeing them in P48, but converting the cab forward shouldn't involve too much butchery if someone wanted to do it. The difference in back to back between US O gauge and P48 is less than 0.5mm so the frames should be OK as they are. The wheels would need to be thinned from the back to reduce the width of the flanges. The wheels don't look too wide so thinning the flanges may be enough to get to scale width, but if they were too wide you would need to press the tyres forward so you don't loose the wheel front detail. There are a lot of wheels to deal with though and once they are sorted the cylinders will need to be modified to bring them in to scale width.
Big Train James
Western Thunderer
I guess I don't need to ask you if you want anything from the vendors at the Chicago Meet next month, as you don't have any money left anyway. 
I see these OMI diesels fairly often at the shows I go to over here. Luckily for me, I just don't need any of them badly enough to pull the trigger and take one home with me. But then again, cheap is my kryptonite, so under the right circumstances it could happen. I'm only human!
Not sure if you are aware, but OMI did a run of sd70Ace's at the end before they packed it in. They were pretty nice, from the pictures I've seen. I know, EMD's.......
.
I see these OMI diesels fairly often at the shows I go to over here. Luckily for me, I just don't need any of them badly enough to pull the trigger and take one home with me. But then again, cheap is my kryptonite, so under the right circumstances it could happen. I'm only human!
Not sure if you are aware, but OMI did a run of sd70Ace's at the end before they packed it in. They were pretty nice, from the pictures I've seen. I know, EMD's.......
.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
It would be prudent to hold off a while on any new brass at the momentI guess I don't need to ask you if you want anything from the vendors at the Chicago Meet next month, as you don't have any money left anyway.
I see these OMI diesels fairly often at the shows I go to over here. Luckily for me, I just don't need any of them badly enough to pull the trigger and take one home with me. But then again, cheap is my kryptonite, so under the right circumstances it could happen. I'm only human!
Not sure if you are aware, but OMI did a run of sd70Ace's at the end before they packed it in. They were pretty nice, from the pictures I've seen. I know, EMD's.......
Overland SD70Ace, they are more than nice! Probably their best model ever and I will have one at some point and I missed a UP SD90MAC the other week, good price too. I say missed, it was buy now and whilst I was thinking about it, someone bought it!
Until then the GEVO C45AH/ES44C4 project is getting a good dose of attention ready for another test etch, after that I'll probably open the SD70ACe project and probably resurrect the SD70M project too after the vacation.
I have enough photos/measurements for previous vacations to get going on the basics and this year one of the goals is to get as many details shots as possible, that means West Colton, Lenwood, Barstow, Dagget, Mojave and possibly Winslow are on the bucket list, all, and a few others I know, stable or stack engines waiting to get into yards regularly or change crews, DPU's are prime target for close up details during these lay overs.
Lenwood DPU's tied down during crew changes, have camera, will take photos!
Having compared the MTH Premier GEVO with the Overland model, which has to be at least 10-15 years senior, then the path is clear. Despite the older models faults, US RTR is on the whole, simply not worth the effort. I'll keep what I have, simply as it's something that goes right now, but eventually some will drift onto the bay of E.
The Challenger may be worth the effort of upgrading as will the MP15 and Dash8-40BW, the GEVO is going to get new cab overlays (cunning plan) and be modified to suit a real prototype, the simplest are BNSF ES44Ac batch 5717 - 5955. A little extra work could get a ES44DC, some with cigar band logo (7751 - 7643), now that is appealing.
Much to do.......
Big Train James
Western Thunderer
Speaking of the Chicago March Meet, it will be upon us in three weeks time. The usual offer stands, if anybody would like me to aggregate parts or other items for them while at the show, thus hopefully streamlining shipping costs, let me know. Sooner is better than later, as I will need time to contact vendors and make sure that they bring your specific goods to the meet for pickup. Most of the usual players for US outline detail parts will be on hand, if you have questions about specific vendor participation, feel free to ask here or send me a message.
Always happy to spend other people's money!
Jim
Always happy to spend other people's money!
Jim
Graham Bustin
Active Member
Mickoo,
Do visit the Museum at Sacramento, Cab Forward is fantastic and you may be allowed in to the cab!
Upstairs there is a large display of models that is worth spending time on.
The Bookshop down stairs is worth a visit so do allow plenty of time.
All this from a Great Western man.
Graham
Do visit the Museum at Sacramento, Cab Forward is fantastic and you may be allowed in to the cab!
Upstairs there is a large display of models that is worth spending time on.
The Bookshop down stairs is worth a visit so do allow plenty of time.
All this from a Great Western man.
Graham
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Well it looks like the great 2020 vacation is finally scuppered, we'll just have to wait and see how it all pans out, hopefully later in the year the moons will align and I'll get out west.
So as a bit of a 'fix' I'm resurrecting the Overland GTEL model.
One of the primary issues was the tarnished brass and haphazard primer paint job, ideally it all needs to come off back to bare metal, then damage/missing parts can be assessed and repaired or replacement parts sought.
I've no idea of the metal condition under the primer but those which had already been stripped were suffering badly from....well what ever it is.
A new toy joined the workshop this week, two actually and a third should be here in a few weeks time.
The compressor is nothing special, typical Chinese run of the mill I suspect, but it runs and is quiet enough to co exist in the same room as the one you're working in, max pressure is 60 psi which should be more than enough.
The first new toy.
A Badger shot blasting kit, cheap enough to dabble with and see how it goes. Note the very small bore feed pipe, i do wonder if that might be the cause of the issue noted below, plenty of pressure but no volume. I do have a 1/8" BSP pipe and have ordered an adaptor to fit the Badger M5 fitting on the gun.
The victims.
Pretty grubby pair of bogies and cab unit fuel tank and battery boxes.
The survivors.
To be fair the blaster works okay, but after only two items I'd used up all of one 12 Oz bottle of grit, I'd seen and used it enough to know there wasn't much point going for the other bogie.
It works but just isn't man enough, even at 60 psi it takes an age to blast an area and just eats grit, no matter how you set the nozzle or feed pipe the results are not consistent. To be fair I wasn't using an enclosure which would retain some if not most of the grit, I used it outside with a large biscuit tin to catch whatever and to be honest, it was a quick and dirty trial, so grit recovery was not the main objective, mind the lawn might not agree
What did get blasted though is very smooth and clearly it is the way forward to rejuvenate the model.
The next step is to find a larger more powerful blaster, not sure if the existing compressor will be man enough, though it's primary use will be the new airbrush arriving in a few weeks.
I suspect a larger blaster will have to be a cabinet and thus the garage beckons though that might be an issue keeping the grit moisture free, we'll see.
So as a bit of a 'fix' I'm resurrecting the Overland GTEL model.
One of the primary issues was the tarnished brass and haphazard primer paint job, ideally it all needs to come off back to bare metal, then damage/missing parts can be assessed and repaired or replacement parts sought.
I've no idea of the metal condition under the primer but those which had already been stripped were suffering badly from....well what ever it is.
A new toy joined the workshop this week, two actually and a third should be here in a few weeks time.
The compressor is nothing special, typical Chinese run of the mill I suspect, but it runs and is quiet enough to co exist in the same room as the one you're working in, max pressure is 60 psi which should be more than enough.
The first new toy.
A Badger shot blasting kit, cheap enough to dabble with and see how it goes. Note the very small bore feed pipe, i do wonder if that might be the cause of the issue noted below, plenty of pressure but no volume. I do have a 1/8" BSP pipe and have ordered an adaptor to fit the Badger M5 fitting on the gun.
The victims.
Pretty grubby pair of bogies and cab unit fuel tank and battery boxes.
The survivors.
To be fair the blaster works okay, but after only two items I'd used up all of one 12 Oz bottle of grit, I'd seen and used it enough to know there wasn't much point going for the other bogie.
It works but just isn't man enough, even at 60 psi it takes an age to blast an area and just eats grit, no matter how you set the nozzle or feed pipe the results are not consistent. To be fair I wasn't using an enclosure which would retain some if not most of the grit, I used it outside with a large biscuit tin to catch whatever and to be honest, it was a quick and dirty trial, so grit recovery was not the main objective, mind the lawn might not agree
What did get blasted though is very smooth and clearly it is the way forward to rejuvenate the model.
The next step is to find a larger more powerful blaster, not sure if the existing compressor will be man enough, though it's primary use will be the new airbrush arriving in a few weeks.
I suspect a larger blaster will have to be a cabinet and thus the garage beckons though that might be an issue keeping the grit moisture free, we'll see.
Big Train James
Western Thunderer
Can be yours for the princely sum of $2850. Negotiable, of course.
The show is slow, many vendors stayed home, as well as many attendees. Apparently the organizers attempted to cancel the show, but the hotel wouldnt let them out of the deal.
The show is slow, many vendors stayed home, as well as many attendees. Apparently the organizers attempted to cancel the show, but the hotel wouldnt let them out of the deal.
Big Train James
Western Thunderer
Or......
mickoo
Western Thunderer
James,
I did wonder if the show would go ahead, I suspect next week it wouldn't of happened.
I do so want a U50, both C and BB, luckily I have a spare set of GTEL trucks in the bundle I got that can be used for a U50C.
Sadly the Overland versions are not their best, the body shells are very 2D, they do make up for it down below though, far better than the MTH and I think Lionel offerings.
That one is over priced, I've seen cheaper on Ebay but that one does look in excellent condition mind.
That's a good price for the coal turbine, they usually go on Ebay for between $5000 - 6000; I've got a inkling the turbine unit used to be Jawn Henry.
I see a SD70ACe on the table as well, not a UP, looks like C&NW colours but I don't think one has ever been painted in those colours, a GG1 as well, all over black has to be NJDOT, PC or Amtrak, I've also got a growing itch for a MILW Little Joe.
I did wonder if the show would go ahead, I suspect next week it wouldn't of happened.
I do so want a U50, both C and BB, luckily I have a spare set of GTEL trucks in the bundle I got that can be used for a U50C.
Sadly the Overland versions are not their best, the body shells are very 2D, they do make up for it down below though, far better than the MTH and I think Lionel offerings.
That one is over priced, I've seen cheaper on Ebay but that one does look in excellent condition mind.
That's a good price for the coal turbine, they usually go on Ebay for between $5000 - 6000; I've got a inkling the turbine unit used to be Jawn Henry.
I see a SD70ACe on the table as well, not a UP, looks like C&NW colours but I don't think one has ever been painted in those colours, a GG1 as well, all over black has to be NJDOT, PC or Amtrak, I've also got a growing itch for a MILW Little Joe.
michael080
Western Thunderer
I am blasting all my brass models before painting and I am using the even cheaper Chinese "air eraser" type of blasting gun.
Aluminium oxide grit is cheap, you can get 25kg for 25GBP, but you will definitely need more air for the gun. I am using our company compressor that is a quite bulky 3000+€ type and it runs almost 50% of the time while I am using the blaster. It can maintain 6-7 bar (~100psi) at the blaster, but my hose is about 2metre of 4mmID tubing.
These things work, but they need a LOT of air.
My US-trip to the east coast with some trainspotting in the Appalachian mountains will probably also be postponed.
Michael
Tim Humphreys ex Mudhen
Western Thunderer
I am blasting all my brass models before painting and I am using the even cheaper Chinese "air eraser" type of blasting gun.
Aluminium oxide grit is cheap, you can get 25kg for 25GBP, but you will definitely need more air for the gun. I am using our company compressor that is a quite bulky 3000+€ type and it runs almost 50% of the time while I am using the blaster. It can maintain 6-7 bar (~100psi) at the blaster, but my hose is about 2metre of 4mmID tubing.
These things work, but they need a LOT of air.
My US-trip to the east coast with some trainspotting in the Appalachian mountains will probably also be postponed.
Michael
Well it looks like the great 2020 vacation is finally scuppered, we'll just have to wait and see how it all pans out, hopefully later in the year the moons will align and I'll get out west.
So as a bit of a 'fix' I'm resurrecting the Overland GTEL model.
One of the primary issues was the tarnished brass and haphazard primer paint job, ideally it all needs to come off back to bare metal, then damage/missing parts can be assessed and repaired or replacement parts sought.
I've no idea of the metal condition under the primer but those which had already been stripped were suffering badly from....well what ever it is.
A new toy joined the workshop this week, two actually and a third should be here in a few weeks time.
View attachment 119435
The compressor is nothing special, typical Chinese run of the mill I suspect, but it runs and is quiet enough to co exist in the same room as the one you're working in, max pressure is 60 psi which should be more than enough.
The first new toy.
View attachment 119436
A Badger shot blasting kit, cheap enough to dabble with and see how it goes. Note the very small bore feed pipe, i do wonder if that might be the cause of the issue noted below, plenty of pressure but no volume. I do have a 1/8" BSP pipe and have ordered an adaptor to fit the Badger M5 fitting on the gun.
The victims.
View attachment 119437
Pretty grubby pair of bogies and cab unit fuel tank and battery boxes.
The survivors.
View attachment 119438
View attachment 119439
To be fair the blaster works okay, but after only two items I'd used up all of one 12 Oz bottle of grit, I'd seen and used it enough to know there wasn't much point going for the other bogie.
It works but just isn't man enough, even at 60 psi it takes an age to blast an area and just eats grit, no matter how you set the nozzle or feed pipe the results are not consistent. To be fair I wasn't using an enclosure which would retain some if not most of the grit, I used it outside with a large biscuit tin to catch whatever and to be honest, it was a quick and dirty trial, so grit recovery was not the main objective, mind the lawn might not agree
What did get blasted though is very smooth and clearly it is the way forward to rejuvenate the model.
The next step is to find a larger more powerful blaster, not sure if the existing compressor will be man enough, though it's primary use will be the new airbrush arriving in a few weeks.
I suspect a larger blaster will have to be a cabinet and thus the garage beckons though that might be an issue keeping the grit moisture free, we'll see.
Mick.
I've got a Badger eraser and find it useless. I now use a Paasche which is far better although much more expensive. However you have to remember these are erasers and not grit blasters so will take time and a lot of abrasive to work well. I would be concerned that a grit blaster would be too aggressive for our models. You do also need a lot of air, not just high pressure but also high volume. I've used mostly in excess of 60psi. My compressor produces up to 110 psi with a considerable volume. I'm not entirely sure if we need this tool for our modelling, I can't see how one could improve the finish you have on your models. They might be good for providing a better surface to which the paint will stick although the correct primer might be just as good. As said you need to buy the abrasive in large quantities for it to be economical. They also make an incredible amount of mess.
all the best
Tim
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Tim, cheers, primary aim here is not to improve the finish but to remove the crud and accumulated that's currently on these models.
Chemicals wont touch it and being as they're already built then fibre brushes wont get in all the nooks and crannies.
I'll look at a better 'eraser' and bigger compressor as so far this is the only method that has cleaned the model.
that's currently on these models. Chemicals wont touch it and being as they're already built then fibre brushes wont get in all the nooks and crannies.
I'll look at a better 'eraser'
and bigger compressor as so far this is the only method that has cleaned the model.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Michael, thanks for the feed back and advice, as I've just said to Tim, I'll look at upgrading in due course.I am blasting all my brass models before painting and I am using the even cheaper Chinese "air eraser" type of blasting gun.
Aluminium oxide grit is cheap, you can get 25kg for 25GBP, but you will definitely need more air for the gun. I am using our company compressor that is a quite bulky 3000+€ type and it runs almost 50% of the time while I am using the blaster. It can maintain 6-7 bar (~100psi) at the blaster, but my hose is about 2metre of 4mmID tubing.
These things work, but they need a LOT of air.
My US-trip to the east coast with some trainspotting in the Appalachian mountains will probably also be postponed.
Michael
adrian
Flying Squad
I would totally agree, as I found out to my cost. It was a Badger mini sandblaster. Now whether the pressure was too high or we used the wrong material but never again. I tried it on my Ivatt 2 tender and it wrecked the side panels. It was a scratch-built tender using 15thou nickel-silver but the sandblaster effectively shot peened the tender side. It basically swaged that side of the sheet and made it bow out like some over pressurised balloon. So my advice is that what ever you decide make damn sure you test it on several representative scrap items before you try it on your pride and joy.
Brian McKenzie
Western Thunderer
Ditto here, and I was about to warn Mickoo of the same.
These two panels were previously soldered back to back, but after gritblasting, a small imperfection required unsoldering them, whereupon they literally exploded apart, each taking on a shape not unlike a Stroudley cab roof.
The answer is to blast both sides of any sheetmetal work - to even out the effect of the peening. This was advised to me years ago by colleague Paul Berntsen (whose working life was scratchbuilding hundreds of locomotives), but I never gave it a thought at the time.
I have one of those inexpensive plastic blast cabinets and was using it at 80psi (as per its instructions) with Grade AE glass beads (= finest). Progress was fairly slow cleaning up the piece of very grubby nickel-silver lying on the grating.Some partly machined wheel centre castings were given a tidy-up around the spokes, and were clamped in a piece of slotted aluminium sheet, to make them easier to hold while using the clumsy rubber gloves. [before and after shown below]
Blasting castings or machined components is unlikely to have any detrimental effects, but sheet metal is something else, and to be vary wary of - should both sides not be accessible.