7mm US model dabblings

JasonD

Western Thunderer
Yes there's a Motel 6 not far away at half the price, but I'm travelling with an ageing friend. Have you asked Ron (Des Plaines) why he won't be running them again? He's said that before about other items, but when there's enough interest.... There was a cartoon in RMC (too) many years ago to that effect! Jordan, is it for a 2-bay or 4-bay Weaver car? Just an idle question you know.
Jason
 

Big Train James

Western Thunderer
Jason,
Ron suggested that he would not run the roof walks again because they now cost too much to produce, and he doesn't think there is a market for them. I gave up on waiting for him. I've started drawing up my own artwork for a replacement. It's not quite done yet due to other life stuff, plus I'm still sorting out how best to fold it all up, as I learn some of the nuances of creating artwork for etching.

The car in question is a 4-bay Weaver Centerflow hopper. Although I am considering cutting them down to 2- or 3-bay versions. I would of course do artwork for roofwalks for all three if the time came.

Jim
 

Jordan

Mid-Western Thunderer
Yes there's a Motel 6 not far away at half the price, but I'm travelling with an ageing friend. Have you asked Ron (Des Plaines) why he won't be running them again? He's said that before about other items, but when there's enough interest.... There was a cartoon in RMC (too) many years ago to that effect! Jordan, is it for a 2-bay or 4-bay Weaver car? Just an idle question you know.
Jason
Weaver 4-bay, although thanks to James I now have a Pecos River 3-bay chassis waiting to go under it.
Also very interested in Jame's proposed etch too, which he has already made me aware of, but I thought it was worth mentioning the Des Plaines (I stand corrected) etch again, as a 'just in case'.
 

Jordan

Mid-Western Thunderer
Any ideas if anyone does 1:48 scale decals for this GATX lettering?

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I've cobbled together most of the small lettering - it's the big white 'GATX' I need - the squared-off 'G' precludes most normal fonts.
Microscale don't do it; google hasn't thrown up anything either.

Any help much appreciated!!
 

Yorkshire Dave

Western Thunderer
If you're careful you could cut the 'corners' off a round 'G' to square it off.

Unless there is some suitable lettering from military modelling sources.
 

Yorkshire Dave

Western Thunderer
Just searched t'interweb - You mean these... . and they are available in O scale.

http://www.modellbahndecals.de/Logo...esselwagen--Weiss--Artikel-Nummer--5352-.html

5352.jpg
 

Jordan

Mid-Western Thunderer
Wow that was quick!! Gentleman & Scholar, Sir!! :thumbs: :bowdown:

I tried Interweb myself, but must not have asked the right question!! :rolleyes: :oops:
 

Jordan

Mid-Western Thunderer

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Oh dear, it's brass, it's UP, it's a turbine and it's OMI....resistance was futile.

To be fair it's a bit of a pigs dinner but if you can look through the mustard paint job and at the bits in the boxes it looks like most of it is there.

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There's no tender chassis but importantly the truck castings are present and I've more than enough info to work up a chassis. A quick browse of Brasstrains.com is always good and they often photo models from all different angles which is good for reference, especially if you want to restore back to factory condition.

There is some damage and I suspect there will be either castings missing here and there, what I don't understand as yet, is why there are three chassis and apparently enough motors, wheels and trucks to make them up, though there may be some drive train parts missing. The brass one looks in the best shape and won't need to be stripped of paint. It looks like there are two cab unit chassis complete with trucks, wheels etc and one turbine chassis sans trucks, wheels etc. I'm presuming that's all the bits in the one of the boxes.

I've got several options, first obviously is strip it all down, get rid of all the paint and see what the metal work is like underneath; assess any damage and parts missing and work from there. Once it's all cleaned back to metal and polished up you could assemble what you have, get it working and even sans tender frame probably move it on for a respectable profit. But it's an OMI UP GTEL and anyone who knows me, knows that's not a realistic prospect ;).

The next option would be to try and completely restore it back to factory and try and source any missing parts or get new etches done for any damaged or missing plate work, plus a fabricate a new tender frame. You could then leave in cleaned bare metal and move it on for more profit. But it's an OMI UP GTEL and anyone who knows me, knows that's not a realistic prospect ;).

One step better than that would be to get it professionally painted, Microscale do decals, probably on several sheets and then move it on for a big profit. A fully restored OMI GTEL usually goes for £1500-2500. But it's an OMI UP GTEL and anyone who knows me, knows that's not a realistic prospect ;).

Moving up from that is to add a few bits of detail and clean up the factory work, good as OMI are, they are showing their age compared to modern brass models, especially in the lower regions. They're also factory built in Korea and good as the factory workers are, you still get the odd joint not quite fitting here and there.

I had a really good look at a near mint OMI SD40-2 yesterday at Kettering, very attractively priced as well and it would of been mine today if I'd not won this GTEL overnight. It was good but there were little things like the number board surrounds being soldered on slightly on the wonk and gaps where the grills were soldered onto the body. To be fair that does make them pretty much individual models and that alone when compared to computer made RTR conveyor belt models, can often add to the price and collection value.

A recent weathered OMI GTEL with a few additional details in P48 went for over £4000. But it's an OMI UP GTEL and anyone who knows me, knows that's not a realistic prospect ;).

UP 28 turbine P48.jpg
copyright, some geezer on the web.

The final (nearly) option is to go all out and really super detail the model, new fine detail mesh screens, roof details and upgraded chassis with pipe and plate work. Other things like the sand fillers which are a bit 2D would need upgrading and the trucks too. Whilst the stock trucks are ok on the track, they loose that appeal the minute you turn it over, so you'd need to work up some internal bracing to replicate the real thing. But it's an OMI UP GTEL and anyone who knows me, knows that's not a realistic prospect ;).

The factory model does come with a turbine representation so you can open the doors and see it in there, GTELs often ran with turbine body doors open, it aided cooling but probably didn't help intake filtration ;). I'm not sure if this one has the turbine present, the exhaust scoop is present so hopefully it is. If not then I'll work up a basic one for the first few options above, but for the super detailed it'd have to be pulled out and a really good nice detailed one dropped in.

The only issue with the last option above is that you are taking the model away from factory stock, in some cases that will result in a loss of sale ability and authenticity and you may not attract the best resale price. There's also no original OMI box, that's a massive loss on sale ability and it'd be a hard item to find, you'd also have to match the stock box sticker to the actual model.

The model is a late generation, with widened cab unit fuel tank and a HIII dynamic brake grid layout, that limits it to engines 16-30. It's also got the larger 24-C tender which will further limit your choices and time periods; I'd have to get all the books out and narrow that down in the next few weeks before delivery.

The final option is to restore it to as near factory finish as reasonably practicable, certainly a new tender chassis will need to be built up, then the choice is to leave as bare brass (which often has it's own unique pricing) or have it repainted. Having done that I'd go over it for measurements (OMI are usually pretty accurate in sizing and details) and cross reference with the drawings and data I have here. Then work up my own nickel silver etches, modifying where necessary to upgrade to an all out super detailed model kit. Next would be to work up some new castings and generally make a whole new engine from the ground up. You could then either move on the OMI model or just keep it in as near stock condition as an investment. But it's an OMI UP GTEL and anyone who knows me, knows that is probably the most realistic prospect ;).

I've wanted an OMI model for years, at least 25, but could never afford the price tag, to get one now and a UP GTEL to boot is amazing (especially given the price, shipping and taxes are a bit of a hit mind, but acceptable in the circumstances), granted there's a lot of work ahead but It'll be a pleasure I'm sure.

MD
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
Only recently have I discovered the "Turbines", probably as a result of wandering around your recent holiday snaps and then making the jump to Laramie sub-division... and I am impressed by the presence of the beasts when in action. Your last option seems to be the route that you are going to take and I shall be eager to follow the journey.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
We might need to extend the turntable......:p
You would, only that GTELs didn't use turntables, they're too long so were turned on a wye as a full unit. You could turn them, and they often were, with the tender removed, but then they could only operate on the Cooper-Bessemer. You'd also then have to turn the tender as well as the fuel transfer lines were at one end only.
 

JasonD

Western Thunderer
Woooorrraaaahaahaaamericanoscale! Sorry Mick, just clearing my throat. OK, 1. restore it to factory and listen to some wan... er, collector SAY that's not a factory tender chassis is it, is that UP yellow paint spots in that solder seam and where's the box. 2. copy/improve it with your own etches and n/s castings, just remember to label the various storage boxes verbosely so when you're 72 you can remember exactly what you were doing to it before you acquired that next fantastic.... 3. Build it NOW, embellished with extra detail and the rest, to reside in a tongue and grooved wooden display box made from a Wyoming Lonesome Pi... oh, getting carried away there, with your own engraved Master Builder's plate (there is money to be made out of identify yourself as that builder/restorer with the good reputation) and enjoy looking at it and telling everyone about it for years AND then selling it for that fortune.

Unjustified, negative comments: P48 it? Only steam locos benefit from that. No? Only people with small layouts do P48, mainly small locos who wants just a huge turbine refuelling depot for a layout? Hang on, that's not a ba... er, where was I? No, choice 3, I acquired an OMI C424 in the last century which I painted D&H, it's derailed with damage to an end sill ('fixed' by ...) and when I got the Atlas model (factory paint, everything aligned) I still drool near the OMI version.

Happy days, I'll get a pic of that UP 2-8-2 I mentioned at Kettering.
Jason
 

Big Train James

Western Thunderer
he older OMI models are known to be prone to cold solder joints, both in application of details but also at times with structural elements like internal bulkheads. So a paint strip and thorough going-over would be prudent.

Bill Davis at American Scale Models, at some point years ago, bought out the remaining OMI parts stock. So a troll through his website might turn up missing parts. I'd recommend a call or email if you don't see what you need, as he often has back stock that isn't present on the web. He will be at the Chicago show in a couple of weeks, for what it's worth, although it seems like he isn't bringing all the parts stock with him anymore. So it may be worth nothing. And two weeks isn't much time for assessment and research anyway.

Lastly, when it comes to sound, ESU did a file for these locos for the Scaletrains HO model, so that may be available already. The sound isn't quite as dynamic as with traditional diesel prime mover locos, as the turbine is pretty much either on (loud, whining, turbine sound) or off. I don't think there's any of the nuances of throttling up and down with loading as you might get from most other locomotives.

One other note, the Illinois Railway Museum does have one of the two preserved GTEL turbines on their roster, and I know somebody :rolleyes::cool: that has plans to head out to the museum on Friday before the Chicago meet for research purposes, with camera and tape measure in hand. I could grab a few snaps and measurements if you can identify issues by then.

Jim
 
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JasonD

Western Thunderer
May see you at Union too Jim, I'll be the tall, silver-haired Brit with the D&H PA lapel badge.
Jason
 

Big Train James

Western Thunderer
Jason,
I'm sure we will connect more than once over the course of the weekend.

I just hope the weather isn't too dreary. Lot's of precipitation in the forecast for that weekend. My major concern is that they may cancel the open house due to condition of the grounds. It's happened in the past. I plan on sending an email to the organizers letting them know I would still like to visit the museum despite the potential weather issues.

Have you been to the museum previously?

Jim
 

JasonD

Western Thunderer
Yes Jim, I've been in different weathers, but always more to see than time permits. Precipitation I can prepare for. I like the way your weather people put a % factor after. Here we have heavy showers, light rain, drizzle, thunderstorms, rain with some hail, etc, etc and that's usually "so far this morning...". The wind today has varied from breezy thru gusty to 'storm Freya'.

Might go to Ted Schnepf's and/or Stephen Karlson's, Friday pm/Sunday pm, DPH Monday morning. Free Thursday just now ... maybe Metra downtown after Denny's :thumbs:
Jason
 

SimonT

Western Thunderer
only that GTELs didn't use turntables, they're too long so were turned on a wye as a full unit.
Thank goodness we don't turn the veranda and tender on the turntable. Doh! Ah, Rule 1 applies!
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Well actually you can, the Veranda and Standard turbines could/should just fit on a 120' table with tender, especially if using the shorter 23C and I think 20C. The GTEL is three units so waaaayyy too long.

Tenders are another minefield on turbines so I'd need to check the older short ones but the GTEL used both the 23C and 24C. The wheel base on the 23C being some 6' shorter makes them ideal for the Verandas and Standards.

Laramies Veranda is #65, I'll check when I get home and post up the tenders types and fitting this evening. I think Peter has just got a tender for it so I'll see if I have any info that might help.

I do need to get on with my challenger as well, it, at bare minimum, needs a new front bogie and wheels as it's very 3 rail down there and I am tempted to whip the rest of the wheels off and turn the rims down. Also need to check the valve gear as it doesn't look or feel like it looks heavy enough.
 
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