Suitable/recommended Bench/Pillar drills.

[mickoo]

To prevent Sopwith Steves thread being diluted further, looking for a decent accurate bench drill.

Steph has noted Proxxon (which one please?), which are a given for accuracy (I have their bench saw and sander) but at a price
Steve has noted Manix MD1 and is very happy.

Any other preferences out there?

Thanks in advance.

Kindest

 

[adrian]

The other alternative is a good quality secondhand one.

A few years ago I picked up an old Jones & Shipman bench drill. It's solid cast iron machine so doesn't shake, it'll handle the small stuff without a problem but has plenty of grunt for the larger drills. In fact there is one on ebay at the moment, a lick of paint and a single phase motor would make it a very nice bit of kit.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251196867477

 

[mickoo]

Adrian, that is an alternative I hadn't considered, personally I steer clear of second hand tools, just a thing of mine, I like my tools to be new, silly maybe, more expensive, probably, but that's the way I am LOL, but it is an alternative to be considered, thanks.

 

[JimG]

Adrian, that is an alternative I hadn't considered, personally I steer clear of second hand tools, just a thing of mine, I like my tools to be new, silly maybe, more expensive, probably, but that's the way I am LOL, but it is an alternative to be considered, thanks.

Mick,

I had a look round the web last night when you initially raised the topic and was really surprised at the lack of small precision pillar drills around. I wouldn't recommend the cheap Clarke type drills. I've got one and it is fine for doing roughish work, but I wouldn't think of using very small drills in it since I doubt I could feel the drill, and I doubt if the chuck supplied would hold them. My own small precision drill was a set of partially finished castings I got many years ago and that is a way of getting a good small sensitive drill these days, but you need a fairly good workshop to make the thing.

However, I quite like the look of the Manix MD1. It has a proper Jacobs taper on its spindle, so will give you the option of changing chucks if you want. I got a good 1/4"Jacobs chuck for my small drill which will grip No.80 drills so I don't have to use pin chucks.

I did see some tasty small precision pillar drills from some American manufacturers, but couldn't see prices on their web sites and suspected that it might have been " if you have to ask the price, you don't need one" situation.

Jim.

 

[Arty]

These are quite nice, I have one.
Same machine, available from others I believe.

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machines-Accessories/Milling-Machines/Model-X0-Micro-Mill
http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-sieg-x0-digital-readout-micro-drill-prod366133/

 

[28ten]

I too have a cheap Clarke drill, fine for making random holes but no use for precise work, but then it only cost £30 I have been quite impressed with the Proxxon gear i have bought.

 

[mickoo]

These are quite nice, I have one.
Same machine, available from others I believe.

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machines-Accessories/Milling-Machines/Model-X0-Micro-Mill
http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-sieg-x0-digital-readout-micro-drill-prod366133/

You know, I looked all over Arc Euros pages for a bench drill, would help if they labled it as such! Not as a mill?, thank you very much for that, that drill and compound table look similar to the Proxxon set up (TBM 220 + KT70) I'm considering but a little more expensive, however the SIEG drill will take larger drill bits off the bat and the compound table looks to have more travel than the Proxxon one but will need cleaning and setting up, Proxxon from experience works right out of the box and is cheaper.

Mind the SIEG will mill up to 6mm which fits perfectly with what I wanted to do, not sure if the Proxxon drill head will take milling forces? Looks like it might be the SIEG drill/mill with the Proxxon compound table.

The only down side to both is I need to drill some 5/16" holes and both chucks will not suffice, the SIEG is a JT1 spindle and I do already have a JT2 chuck that'll go up to 10mm, wonder if there is a JT1 to JT2 adaptor on the market anywhere. No idea what the Proxxon has or will accept.

Guv'nor, with you on Proxxon, also impressed with the gear I already have so more from the same stable isn't an issue if it'll do the work requested of it.

Kindest

 

[Arty]

Hi Mick
The Sieg unit is more "engineering" than the Proxxon product, the x-y table is far superior to the Proxxon KT70 - all metal - as a combination they are quite heavy.
Having said that I have numerous Proxxon products and they are all excellent bits of machinery - the KGS80 chopsaw cuts stripwood very accurately and the bandsaw particularly useful, it wizzes (engineering term) through nickel sheet like no tomorrow.

If it's just drilling then the TBM220 is fine, but for light milling ( you can get a nice set of ER11 collets for this) the Sieg is the one.

Richard

 

[mickoo]

Hi Mick
The Sieg unit is more "engineering" than the Proxxon product, the x-y table is far superior to the Proxxon KT70 - all metal - as a combination they are quite heavy.
Having said that I have numerous Proxxon products and they are all excellent bits of machinery - the KGS80 chopsaw cuts stripwood very accurately and the bandsaw particularly useful, it wizzes (engineering term) through nickel sheet like no tomorrow.

If it's just drilling then the TBM220 is fine, but for light milling ( you can get a nice set of ER11 collets for this) the Sieg is the one.

Richard

Richard, initially it's just drilling, the milling is an added extra that I may want to do later, for example milling slots in axle boxes for frame guides or flutes in coupling rods etc, in which case the Proxxon MF70 might suffice, all light work as they say, not engineering. Mind I do have a SIEG C3 mini lathe

The only downside with the SIEG X0 is the chuck, it's limited to 6mm as far as I can tell and I can find no other JT1 chucks (as yet) that will go bigger. The TBM220 however will accept Proxxons 10mm chuck so that will allow larger sizes of drill to be used.

I have the Proxxon FET table saw and TG125E disc sander, both very capable but the saw needs some close attention where the plastic and light alloy parts are involved to get accurate cuts consistantly. Might have to look at one of these chop saws in due course LOL.

I see what your saying though, viz hobby or small engineering, thanks for the input, the jury is still out

 

[Arty]

Mick, If you look at the Proxxon chuck, it's a Rhom 1/4" chuck, the 10mm ref is the thread fixing.

I read the review on the Conrad site saying that using the drill above 5mm will cause it to stall - I appreciate it depends how much you overdo the feed rate but having had two of these drills in the past, I would concur with that caution.

Rich

 

[mickoo]

Rich, bugga!! You'd think it'd be easy to just drill 6 off 5/16" holes accurately!

The Manix MD1 only goes up to 6.5mm and is also a JT1 taper like the SIEG so that falls outside of the requirement as well.
Another option is this larger bench drill but we have a similar one at work and the bearings are ...how shall we say.... agricultural Of course you then loose the ability to do the really accurate fine work often required for S7.

Failing that it'd be the Proxxon TBH but that's getting pricey

If I'm stuck with a 6mm bit limit then the SIEG looks the better option of the two in that it's a mill as well, I'll have to work out some other way to drill the 5/16" holes and will probably end up with a 4 jaw independent chuck and follow Adrians route and bore them out.

 

[adrian]

Rich, bugga!! You'd think it'd be easy to just drill 6 off 5/16" holes accurately!

The Manix MD1 only goes up to 6.5mm and is also a JT1 taper like the SIEG so that falls outside of the requirement as well.
Another option is this larger bench drill but we have a similar one at work and the bearings are ...how shall we say.... agricultural Of course you then loose the ability to do the really accurate fine work often required for S7.

Now you know why I like my Jones & Shipman bench drill, it'll handle No.80 drills up to 5/16" without any problems.

 

[Susie]

Mick,

Apart from Adrian's J&S, you do really need two machines to be able to handle drills from No.80 to 1/2".

By insisting on having nice, new machines, you are limiting yourself to whatever the Chinese are churning out at the moment, and passing by loads of well made machines that at worst need new bearings and a lick of paint. Remember, most older machines were designed to be run day and night, and to be maintained, not replaced.

I have a Meddings pillar drill for large stuff from about 3/32" to 1/2" and a Toyo Mini Drill for below 3/16". Apart from the Toyo and my Super 7. all my machines are secondhand, some dating from the 1950's.

Susie

 

[mickoo]

Now you know why I like my Jones & Shipman bench drill, it'll handle No.80 drills up to 5/16" without any problems.

LOL, ok point taken Its obvious I'm trying to cross two distinct streams of modelling, or should that be modelling and engineering.

 

[mickoo]

Mick,

Apart from Adrian's J&S, you do really need two machines to be able to handle drills from No.80 to 1/2".

By insisting on having nice, new machines, you are limiting yourself to whatever the Chinese are churning out at the moment, and passing by loads of well made machines that at worst need new bearings and a lick of paint. Remember, most older machines were designed to be run day and night, and to be maintained, not replaced.

I have a Meddings pillar drill for large stuff from about 3/32" to 1/2" and a Toyo Mini Drill for below 3/16". Apart from the Toyo and my Super 7. all my machines are secondhand, some dating from the 1950's.

Susie

Susie, appreciate that about new tools, but here's my take, wrong that it may be, if it needs paint or new bearings then it wasn't looked after in the first place, don't get me wrong, my tools are not all pristine and spangly but no where near the state of the one Adrian showed on Ebay earlier. There is also the time factor, I don't have time to rebuild old machines to get them to perform correctly, I have enough equipment/appliances already that requires that sort of work and it's what I do for a day job LOL (heavy engineering technician) and I do try so very hard not to bring my work home with me

Even simple things like a bearing change will probably require more specialised tools such as a bearing puller and press and being old, you can bet the races are not going to come off with a squirt of WD40 On top of that it will almost certainly require a complete rewire and maybe electrical overhaul or part replacement to meet current regulations, pfft one might say it's good enough, but if your house burns down and the insurance company finds out you have old wired tools they're going to use ever ruse in the book not to pay, even if it wasn't the root cause of the fire.

I see your point, but it just isn't me I'm afraid and yes I'm going to have to trek this road of broken glass because of it.

Finally, after a days research I've come to the same conclusion, a small delicate one for fine work and a big hammer and anvil one for larger work.

Kindest

 

[28ten]

Im not sure if i would get the Seig, the C3 needed a lot of work, the only reason I chose it over a s/h myford was getting it into my workshop, you will end up rebuilding a Chinese machine as well. My laser is Chinese and whilst it works well, life could have been so much easier.

 

[mickoo]

Im not sure if i would get the Seig, the C3 needed a lot of work, the only reason I chose it over a s/h myford was getting it into my workshop, you will end up rebuilding a Chinese machine as well. My laser is Chinese and whilst it works well, life could have been so much easier.

That's a fair point which I'd forgotten, my lathe still really needs doing, as well as some of the addon extras one can add, carriage clamp lock etc. No doubt the SIEG mill would need some similar work to get it up to scratch.

By default it looks like the Proxxon or Manix MD1 for small detailed work will be the best option out of the box with the Proxxon compound table, a larger drill or bespoke mill will have to come later. I suppose manufactures are trying to blend tools, bit like cameras in phones!, to paraphrase Harry Enfield... Oi, no!...... phones are for talking to people, cameras for taking pictures, I've never taken a photo with my phone and never had much luck dialling out on my Eos? Same principle for tools I should think.

 

[JimG]

Mick,

If you are only going to drill a few holes larger than 1/4" then you could use the lathe with the drill held in the three jaw and the work piece held on a vertical slide or on a pad in the tailstock. It was the way I worked until I bought the cheap Clarke drill to deal with bigger drill sizes. [Edit] Haven't got the room in the workshop for a decent second hand Fobco or Meddings which would be the preference. And I've now got a Centec mill which can be used as well.

Jim.

 

[mickoo]

Jim,

That might be an idea, I do want a vertical slide and it would allow milling of small stuff as well, I like the idea of a tailstock plate to clamp work too, certainly a lateral approach to the problem, or a clamp plate on the chuck and the drill in the tailstock.

Kindest

 

[mickoo]

I ended up with the Proxxon TBM220 and KT70, thanks to all for their advice and help.

Kindest