Re-profiling FS to S7 driving wheels

M

Marc Dobson

Western Thunderer
Has anyone got a guide to re-profiling Slaters driving wheels? I think, I have got all the kit to do it However a simple guide and a list of kit required wouldn't go a miss. I'd rather not reinvent the wheel and learn from someone else's mistakes.

I'm not a GOG member so I don't have access to their archive if its there.
Marc
 
daifly

daifly

Western Thunderer
If you are a ScaleSeven Group member (if not, you should be!), there is plenty of info in the members area of the website.
Dave
 
adrian

adrian

Flying Squad
Further to @daifly and @Crimson Rambler posts I note your signature for being the North West HMRS area rep.

So if you are domiciled in the Lancashire/Cumbria region I may be able to help. I have the afore mentioned Scale7 form tool which you are welcome to borrow and have access to the online libraries. If you are vaguely Preston region then drop me a PM and I'll see if I can help. I've turned up several Scale7 wheels but I prefer to start from cast iron wheels so slightly different to Slaters.
 
M

Marc Dobson

Western Thunderer
Yes I'm a S7 member, I had a trawl of the website but didn't find anything, but that might be me giving a man look as my wife would say. I have the re-profiling tool.
Adrian, you are correct on my location. I'm based in the lakes. I will PM you tomorrow if that's ok? Cast iron wheels might be an easier thing to turn as they don't have the plastic centre.

Marc
 
Overseer

Overseer

Western Thunderer
There is more than one way to do it. The proper engineering ways take a bit of setting up and because I am basically lazy I do it more simply. I am yet to have a failure while turning down several dozen wheels, most recently the wheels for the 16xx pannier, using a Unimat 3.

Remember you are working with a composite wheel and while the glass filled nylon spokes are strong they do flex so sharp tools and light cuts are important. The steel used for the tyres is free cutting but I don't think it is leaded (Leadloy in the US, or 12L14) so doesn't cut as easily as brass. A cutting fluid can help but isn't vital.

Simply-
1. Mount a standard Slaters axle in a collet in the lathe, so there is some clearance to the end of the axle.
2. Mount a wheel and screw tight.
3. Using a sharp tool ground for cutting steel ie. the top is ground to slope away from the cutting edge (instead of flat as used for brass) turn most of the excess flange height off, just a square cut, don't worry about the shape, then carefully face off the front of the tyre taking numerous fine cuts. The amount you can reduce the width is limited by the thickness of the internal 'flange' on the face of the wheel, they do vary a bit. If you go too far it is not the end of the world but the wheels look better with the joint between steel and plastic covered. Do not touch the rear face of the tyre, if you do it mucks up the back to back dimension.
4. Remove the cutting tool and mount the profile tool. Not sure if I should admit it but my button type profile tool is simply held on a bolt with a nut and the thread beyond ground flat to be held in the tool post. Make sure the profile tool is perpendicular to the wheel and align with the back of the flange. Now carefully advance the tool so it shapes the flange, and finish with the barest skim of the tyre.
5. Carefully use a file to form the 45 degree chamfer on the outer edge.
6. Remove the wheel from the axle and repeat.

It is not proper engineering but it works for me, I can provide photos if anyone is interested. I use the larger lathe for turning tyres from bar stock.
 
daifly

daifly

Western Thunderer
There are two articles for download - “Reprofiling.pdf” in the downloads section plus “Using the wheel profile tool” in the Hints and Tips - Workshop section. See also Newsletter 77 (August 2009), NL 51 (February 2003) and also:
Lathes & M/C tools
Dave
 
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richard carr

richard carr

Western Thunderer
Hi Mark

I have reprofiled a fair few wheels over the 20 years, I have had a couple of articles published in the S7 newletter, unfortunately I can't tell you which ones, probably about 10 years ago.

Slaters are a little more difficult to reprofile because they are a composite wheel and the nylon only has limited strength and temperature tolerance.
Ideally they want to be very well supported when the new flange is formed. What kind of lathe do you have, ideally you really want something Myford 7 size, but smaller lathes will work for smaller sized wheels.

This is a useful thread, there are quite a few good photos further down, showing how to hold the wheels.

Re-gauging Heljan locos to S7

I'm a big fan of soft jaws, these are jaws made of mild steel that you can machine on the chuck so guaranteeing concentricity. If you can get some I would, they are not particularly expensive and last a very long time.

Make sure you use the latest S7 tool, the HSS one in the photos in post 5, these are much easier to use and give much better the results.

My preference with slaters wheels is not to take any material off the front of the tyre. Take it all off the back. You will lose quite a bit of the flange doing this, so to create the new one will require going deeper into the tyre with the result being a slightly smaller wheel that you started with.
You will though avoid any risk of damaging the front face of the tyre which is pretty thin to start with and it is very easy to take too much material off and ruin a wheel.

Richard
 
M

Marc Dobson

Western Thunderer
I have a chester's with a 9inch chuck and a 16 inch throw. Its a bit of sledgehammer to crack a nut. I bought it with the intention to build a 71/4 inch steam engine. I have a full set of colletts and a revolving centre. I've mainly used it for turning boilers and the like for patterns.

Marc
 
Stevesopwith

Stevesopwith

Western Thunderer
I have cut a couple of Slaters wheels into bits, to remove the plastic centres and reveal the inner details of the tyres, and so avoid the possibility of breaking through the front or rear faces

The 2'9" Manning Wardle wheel with a 3.43 mm tyre width, had a front 'flange' 0.49 mm thick, and a rear at 0.75 mm.

The 5'6" driver, with a 3.78 mm tyre, had 0.47 front flange, and 0.87 mm rear.

Steve.
 
richard carr

richard carr

Western Thunderer
Marc

With a lathe like that you are on a winner, it's not too big, you will be able to get everything properly supported.

I really would try and find some soft jaws for your chuck, try the model engineering suppliers there will be some somewhere.


Richard
 
M

Marc Dobson

Western Thunderer
Think I might have a set of soft jaws in the accessory box I need to have a look. The lathe is in my Dad's garage and we are in lock down at the moment. 6 days to go and then I'm clear.
 
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