LBSCR two plank ballast wagon

Discussion in 'G3' started by Jon Nazareth, 14 March 2019.

  1. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

    Does anyone know if a drawing exists for a LBSCR two plank ballast wagon. I've looked on the HMRS website and there isn't one there.

    Jon
     
  2. Yorkshire Dave

    Yorkshire Dave Western Thunderer

  3. Yorkshire Dave

    Yorkshire Dave Western Thunderer

    Following on I've only had a cursory glance (as I've an LBSCR interest) at the list and these 1890's drawings are there :) among others.

    Beware - there's 678 pages and a search on LB highlights 565 entries!

    LB & SCR Brighton Open wagon general arrangement 1896/04/2812914174
    LB & SCR Brighton Goods brake 1896/08/1712914241
    LB & SCR Brighton Rail & sleeper wagon 1896/xx/xx12914102
    LB & SCR Brighton Open goods wagon1896/01/2112914096
    LB & SCR Brighton Ballast brake van 1896/01/0112913967
    LB & SCR Brighton Timber wagon 1894/12/1112913842
    LB & SCR Brighton Cattle wagon 1894/02/0812913835
    LB & SCR Brighton Goods brake 1894/02/1512913297
    LB & SCR Brighton "A" class wagon 1894/07/2512913629
    LB & SCR Brighton 10 tons machinery wagon Marked "see 6238" 1892/07/1412913823
    LB & SCR Brighton Tar tank 1893/12/1212913832
    LB & SCR Brighton Gun carriage 1894/01/2312914530
    LB & SCR Brighton 6 tons ballast wagon 1899/07/1
     
  4. Steph Dale

    Steph Dale Western Thunderer

    Jon,

    They're covered in the Illustrated History of Southern Wagons series. Photos and details in volume 2, drawing and a further photo in the 'Pictorial' volume.

    Steph
     
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  5. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

    Dave/Steph
    Thanks for your replies but I was after the early drawing. Although the HMRS lists didn't show anything relevant, one of the officers, Ian White, has now contacted me to say that there is an 1851 copy that has just been scanned. He seems to think that it was of poor quality but he is double checking and will let me know. I should have mentioned that I have Southern Wagons Vol. ll but have not come across the 'Pictorial' volume. I wanted a drawing that related to the picture on page 60 Plate 104. that has the protruding top side plank.

    Jon
     
  6. Arty

    Arty Western Thunderer

  7. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

    Richard
    Thank you for the picture but, I already have that one. I'm curious about how the sides are held to the ends. Is the pin bolted to the inside of the end or is it directly into the end grain of the end top plank? This is what I'm hoping will show on the works drawing.
     
  8. Arty

    Arty Western Thunderer

    Looking at the photo, it seems to be centred on the end, but it’s only supposition.
    An original drawing would be really useful and look forward to being enlightened.
    27003A3D-0425-49F6-B88F-7E5213AAF5DB.jpeg
     
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  9. Spitfire2865

    Spitfire2865 Western Thunderer

    To me that looks bolted to the inner end face. Odd place but struturally sound. With ballast, a small obstruction into the inner body high on the side wouldnt cause much issue to loading/unloading so I guess was considered acceptable

    Ehh, I take that back, looking again, definitely in the middle.
     
    Last edited: 15 March 2019
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  10. Peter Cross

    Peter Cross Western Thunderer

    To me it looks to be internal. Would not make engineering sense to put it in the centre.
     
  11. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

    That's an incredible close up, Richard, well done but not quite sure how you managed it without it going out of focus. Looking at that picture, it looks as if it's bolted on the inside. If it was in the middle/end grain of the wood, I think that it could very easily split out.

    Jon
     
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  12. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

    Looking again, I think even more so that the pin is bolted to the inner face which is why the top plank is extended. The pin hole in the top plank wouldn't have survived without that extra length of material. It's also interesting to note, since Richard's enlargement of the picture, that there is a metal strip fixed to the top of the top plank.

    Jpn
     
  13. Spitfire2865

    Spitfire2865 Western Thunderer

    Is it just me or does the end planking on that wagon seem VERY thin. At least below the 3" typical.
     
  14. Steph Dale

    Steph Dale Western Thunderer

    The inside/outside dimension on the drawing indicate that it's 2.5" thick...

    Steph
     
  15. Arty

    Arty Western Thunderer

    If you look at the other end of the wagon, I think it is clearer that the fixing ironwork of the door peg is on the inside of the end.
    Notice the witness mark for the brake guard on the top plank.
    ballend1.jpg
     
  16. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

    Richard
    That is perfect however, I'm still amazed at how you have made the photograph so clear. That's a odd way to fix the top steel strip to the planking. it looks as they have embedded a length of studding and then screwed a nut on, strange.

    Jon
     
  17. Arty

    Arty Western Thunderer

    Presumably the original is a glass plate negative and it’s a quality scan.
     
  18. Overseer

    Overseer Western Thunderer

    I bought one of the 7mm whitemetal kits of the concave end LBSC ballast wagons from Home of O Gauge and assembled it in February 1999. I bought it because I liked the look of it and it was described as a Stroudley ballast wagon. This intrigued me because if it was designed by Stroudley it is a more primitive wagon than any wagon running on the Highland Railway. We don't really know how much involvement Stroudley had in wagon design while in Inverness, I think very little. Was this ballast wagon a Stroudley design or did it predate his arrival in Brighton?
    lbsc ballast.jpg
     
  19. AndyB

    AndyB Western Thunderer

    Jon,
    Bolts passing vertically up though the planks to hold them together were quite common in earlier wagons.
    Here is an extract from the drawing for the Midland 8T Low Goods - you can see a bolt passing through 3 planks and then through the capping. The capping was also held on with woodscrews, No.14 22 size being common.
    Andy vertical bolt.jpg

    Edited to correct screw size
     
    Last edited: 18 March 2019
  20. Jon Nazareth

    Jon Nazareth Western Thunderer

    Thanks, Andy, another detail to add :).
    That's a nicely detailed drawing , too.

    Jon