Hartley Hills, LNWR c1900 - buffer stops, how do you build yours?

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
Thanks to all for suggestions on how to construct "removable" buffer stops.

As the "removable" nature is wanted to ensure that the items survive the initial journey, from here to there, then I shall make up the rails / beams as a unit which plugs through the sleepers into the baseboard top surface. As and when I cut metal then I shall offer pictures of the job.
 

3 LINK

Western Thunderer
I have used closed cell polyurethane foam (Exactoscale) and latex Carpet adhesive for about ten years now and there has been no deterioration of either the foam or the bond. Ballast is Woodlands Scenic fixed with the Scenic cement... because that stuff does not set hard (as does PVA).

regards, Graham


Hi Graham,

I know this topic is a bit of a "blast from the past", but what has brought this to my attention is that I have been following a topic on the guild forum, and up to now the group have been doing some exceptional P/Way work. The problems they have encountered start 3rd post down :-http://www.gauge0guild.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3009&whichpage=16

They also chose to use the closed cell foam and carpet adhesive, and have come to reason that the sound deadening qualities are almost nil. Mind you I did think he mentioned express speed with eight on !

I know this summer so far has been a scorcher and quite exceptional but they have also encountered problems with the track expanding and lifting so much so that the plastic C & L fishplates have been pinging off :eek:.

So now I am all a dither as to what underlay ( if any ) to chose, as I am at the stage of no return.

Decisions, decisions.........:confused:.

Martyn.
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
Martyn,

I shall not be able to respond to your post above in respect of the G0G Forum discussion... not a member and the discussion is members-only.

...I know this summer so far has been a scorcher and quite exceptional but they have also encountered problems with the track expanding and lifting so much so that the plastic C & L fishplates have been pinging off.

So now I am all a dither as to what underlay ( if any ) to chose, as I am at the stage of no return.

Scrufts Junction, which is our home layout, lives in the garage and has done for more than seven years. The baseboards are 6mm MDF with diagonals such that there is no unsupported top surface longer than 10 inches... the PW formation is 6mm closed cell (ex-Exactoscale) stuck with carpet laytex glue and the track is stuck to the foam with the same glue. All rail joints are made with Exactoscale ABS fishplates. There has been no track lifting from the formation and no loss of fishplates.

The same scenario holds for Hartley Hill.

If the Exactoscale now C&L ABS fishplates are used "as is" and without any work on the rails then the ends of the fishplates splay out and the plastic does break away over time. The fishing surface under the rail head needs to be thinned so that the fishplate slides on without binding.

You can use the Exactoscale cast brass fishplates - no pinging there I expect.

regards, Graham
 

Mike Sheardown

Western Thunderer
They also chose to use the closed cell foam and carpet adhesive, and have come to reason that the sound deadening qualities are almost nil. Mind you I did think he mentioned express speed with eight on !

So now I am all a dither as to what underlay ( if any ) to chose, as I am at the stage of no return.

Decisions, decisions.........:confused:.

Martyn.


Hi Martyn,

I was very saddened to hear of the track damage caused by heat expansion on the SR7mm Group layout, and, interested to hear their thoughts on what they felt to be a lack of sound deadening effect offered by the use of closed cell foam.

As you know, I also use this foam, and I have to say that in my case, the presence of the foam between sleepers and base-board, has certainly helped to decrease the 'base-board drumming' effect that I used to get when the track was laid directly onto the boards. As discussed earlier in this thread, I think it would also be interesting to experiment with taking this one step further, by adding an additional layer of foam between the base-boards and their supporting framework, in an effort to reduce any remaining 'drumming' even more.

My ideal, is to end up with rail hum and rail joint noise only, as since I use DCC sound, I don't want it to have to compete with base-board drumming. This is because I am keen to reduce the sound volume on all my locos, in an effort to maximise the sense of distance and speed, created by the sound increasing and fading as a train passes.

Anyway, here is a poor quality video of my test-track layout before I dismantled it in order to start work on my new layout. It's about 2 years old, and I took it when I was experimenting with designing my own DCC sound projects, and I wanted to hear how they sounded on video. However, it also illustrates the general lack of drumming noise coming from the stock as they pass the camera, and I hope this will give you an idea of what the use of foam might achieve. (apologies for the awful scenic state of the layout :eek: !!!)


One further thought on the use of foam. I have read on several occasions, that if the barrier between baseboard and track created by the foam is bridged, then the sound deadening properties of the foam will significantly be reduced. Examples of this would be: the use of track pins and/or screws to fasten the track through the foam and into the base-board; the use of PVA to attach ballast, particularly where the ballast is also in direct contact with both the base-board and sleepers.

Hope the above is helpful

Mike

Ps: After listening to the video again, I know that there is a bit (?) of a clatter as the stock passes, but you should have heard it before the foam was laid :eek: !!
 

3 LINK

Western Thunderer
As discussed earlier in this thread, I think it would also be interesting to experiment with taking this one step further, by adding an additional layer of foam between the base-boards and their supporting framework, in an effort to reduce any remaining 'drumming' even more.



Mike

Ps: After listening to the video again, I know that there is a bit (?) of a clatter as the stock passes, but you should have heard it before the foam was laid :eek: !!

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the info, I personally think over 75% of the noise is generated from beneath the baseboards as they act like a drum, so I was thinking of trying either the fluffy loft insulation ( the fire proof type ) packed lightly up under the baseboards or even the Celotex foam boards that are fairly easy to cut to shape.

Just a thought :thumbs:.

I had better not hijack Grahams thread any more, and as John said earlier I also would like to see some more of your work, more photos the better.

Cheers,

Martyn.
 

Mike Sheardown

Western Thunderer
The baseboards are 6mm MDF with diagonals such that there is no unsupported top surface longer than 10 inches... the PW formation is 6mm closed cell (ex-Exactoscale) stuck with carpet laytex glue and the track is stuck to the foam with the same glue.

I've just been re-reading your post above Graham, and I hadn't realised that you use 6mm thick foam. The sound deadening with that must be really good.

I only use the 3mm stuff (not from C&L, but wooden floor underlay from B+Q with self adhesive backing), and I'm quite pleased with that. I might experiment further with 2 layers of my 3mm - what do you think?

Cheers

Mike
 

john lewsey

Western Thunderer
Sorry that they are a bit grainy but poor light .The idea is to use the photos (four terraced houses ) to make a mock up of the terrace I've taken a few photos of the end of the terrace as well
 

Crimson Rambler

Western Thunderer
I only stumbled on this thread very recently but was rather surprized to read (p6) references to some Midland chairs I used to market many years ago. Some of you who were modelling in 7mm then may even recall seeing the following piece of track. It used to do the rounds then publicising the S7 Group - itself very new - and of course the Dewsbury layout. To shew how old it is the label describing the point was printed on an Amstrad green screen computer!
IMG_20190920_180736.jpg

The point is a 12ft switch married to a 1 in 7 crossing and below is a close-up view of the latter. Apologies for the condition of the track it has been just been kicking around.

IMG_20190920_180704.jpg

It was probably all a decade or two too early. at that time many S7 modellers were exP4/S4 and looked to soldered rivets in plywood sleepers rather than glued construction. A method they were very familiar with but which it seems did not scale up happily.

While waiting what seems to be becoming an inordinately long time to have a few Slaters driving wheels re-profiled to S7 and after a break of about 25 years I have made some more chairs. These are destined for my layout.

First to be done was the 1 in 5 common crossing, which with the 1 in 7 will feature in a couple of three-throws
85lbs 1 in 5 Common I.jpg

Next was the 1 in 8 diamond to be used in a pair of single slips in the down goods and the down passenger lines
1 in 8 Diamond III.jpg

The latest one is the 1 in 10 common crossing destined for the facing point from the up goods to the up passenger lines
1 in 10b.jpg Incidentally the keys have to be separate otherwise you cannot assemble the crossings but once they are in place the structure becomes locked with the 1.75ins flangeway clearances (or something very close to them) automatically obtained with any adjustment needed readily made.

Adrian Tester

aka Crimson Rambler
 
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