Gloucester 6 ton coal wagon

lankytank

Western Thunderer
Jon

You might want to get it pantograph milled..? We both know someone who could do it. :rolleyes::rolleyes::thumbs:

In fact, apart from the straight vertical strap, both 'wiggly' straps could be milled.
 

Mike W

Western Thunderer
I think with care and by keep flattening it, you'll do it alright from a flat strip. Is it Welsh?

Mike
 

mswjr

Western Thunderer
yes , Mike is right, Brass strip, anneal it bend it, then when it start's to bow I would flatten it back in some smooth vice jaw's, then anneal again until it is the right shape, keep annealing is the answer.
 

Mike W

Western Thunderer
This wagon reminds me that 30 years ago there was a chap my father knew and who we met at model shows each year. Think he was known as Taffy something and he scratch built dozens and dozens of Welsh private owner wagons, many not unlike these, probably 4mm. Anyone now what happened to him and/or his wagons?

Mike
 

Mike W

Western Thunderer
Sorry Jon, don't have axleboxes like that. Nearest would be your 1860s LBSC or possible this LNWR 7-ton and file to shape. But they don't have GWC Co No.1 on the front either!

Mike
 

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BG Rich

Member
Hello Jon,
Your drawing seems to be a copy of the Locket and Marychurch wagon in Len Tavender's book "Railway Equipment Drawings" page 47 (his drawing no N447). On page 46 in his book is a drawing of a Glos Wagon Co 10 ton dumb buffer wagon of 1883. Its wagon plate (which is the same shape as the one on the Coalbrook Colliery wagon photo sent to you by daifly) has the writing as follows: : :
Top line in a curve: GLOSTER WAGON COY (with the OY in the upper part of the lettering in smaller, approx. half size letters as in No (as in Number) with a line under the 'o')
LIMITED in capitals centred under the arch of the top line
Third line: BUILDERS & OWNERS
Fourth line: No (with the 'o' with a line under) 14071.
The dimensions of the plate drawn by Mr Tavender are 9 inches long by 6 inches deep with the same incurved corners..

My Locket & Marychurch drawing (using two pairs of glasses plus magnifying glass under a strong light!) shows the same lettering except that the wagon number is No 2346.

As a comment on the Coalbroook wagon axleboxes I would suggest that it actually reads G W Co rather than GWC again with the 'o' in the upper part of the lettering.

A few years ago I made a 7mm scale model of this wagon, which shamefully still remains without a brake lever. In Peter Matthew's booklet "Private Owner Wagons" (published by Model and Allied Publications, Hemel Hempstead 1973) there is a drawing of a Garth Merthyr Colliery, Maesteg 7 ton wagon with similar curvy ironwork next to the end door. The straight lever to operate the brakes (which slopes up towards the top of the end door end of the wagon as in the Coalbrook wagon above) is attached at its lower end to the vertical strap that pulls upward shown on the Tavender drawing that operates the levers on the brake shoes . In the series that Peter Matthews did in the old MRN there were several photos of Welsh wagons of that time showing similar straight brake levers with either straight or curved ratchet systems. I will search through the magazine mountain and try to find the relevant copies if that might be useful. These short old wagons are ideal for little 'shoe box' layouts like mine with limited sidings capacity.

Hoping the above may be of use and looking forward to further progress with 'Enigma' and the wagons.
Best wishes
Rich
 

BG Rich

Member
Jon,
Just a little extra to your comment in post number 6 above re; a possible Welsh connection. In "Coal Trade Wagons," also by Len Tavender, on page 27 there is a drawing of another Gloucester built wagon from 1884. It is of 'Locket's Steam Coal Compy' of Merthyr No 362, load 10 tons with a rolled iron underframe and self contained buffers. Body size 14' 11" over headstocks and 7' 3" wide. At the door end there is a large letter M in the style of the Midland Railway's 'M' over the bottom four planks. At the closed end of the wagon is a large 'L' covering the lowest four planks, next to which is script on the second plank in two lines - "Empty to Mardy Colliery," under which is written "Taff Vale Raily." The bottom plank has the script
"Tare 4-19-0." Body colour according to Tavender's notes is likely black with white unshaded lettering. Wheelbase is 8' 3" length overall is 17"6."

Probably too much information, but it is sometimes of interest to have some more background information when building stock.
Best wishes
Rich
 

Jon Nazareth

Western Thunderer
Dear Rich
The drawing is indeed from Taverner's Railway Equipment Drawings and it was chosen because of it's small size. I did try to order some wagon plates, the same as those on page 46, from Guilpates but, Gareth replied that he wasn't taking any more orders until the lockdown eases and to re apply at the end of May. Still, I have recently received an order from Mike Williams which will enable me to get the frames up onto their wheels.

Jon
 

Jon Nazareth

Western Thunderer
A mock up of one of the underframes with one of the sides propped up to show the height difference between the coal wagon and the ore wagon. Both coal wagons are at this stage and all, although it doesn't show in this picture, sides and ends have been scribed to show planking. If I get a chance today, I'll start fixing the sides and ends to the frames. I have some 2 mm x 2 mm brass and intend to have a go at making some square 14 BA nuts. These will only be for securing the W irons and the crown plates if I'm successful, 56 in all needed. The idea will be to drill for 14 BA in the lathe and part off with all threading being carried out sat down in doors. On the picture above, all of the nuts are square, the smaller ones would need to be 16 BA but I'm not going to have a go at those :).
 

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john lewsey

Western Thunderer
View attachment 122452

Mike
This was sent to me by Daifly and it's very similar to the two that I'm building but they don't have a side door(s) as far as i'm aware.
Two questions. Do you have any of those axleboxes? They look as if they have on them, GWC No1.
Secondly, does anyone know what it says on that number/wagon plate?

Jon
Hi do you know what the width of these wagons was. Also where can I find photos of them
John
 
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Jon Nazareth

Western Thunderer
John
The above photo came from the HMRS and, I believe, there is a photo of the wagon in the drawing. I have ordered a copies of both but, while the lockdown exists, the HMRS is closed. It would have been nice to have had the version in the drawing while the builds go on but, hey ho.

Jon
 
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