G3 Track and wheel standards

unklian

Western Thunderer
I wonder if anybody here has questioned the G3 society track and wheel standards ? Personally I am not very happy with them as to my eyes they are unnecessarily coarse and sloppy. I have experimented with finer dimensions and the results are very encouraging, however I have been 'forced' back to the society standards for the sake of compatibility . Although my garden track is all plain so I am not committed yet ! As far as I am aware there are three sets of published standards, those in the MAP Model Engineering handbook for 2 1/2" gauge, the Gauge 3 Society ones and the German Spur II ones. The latter seem very good to me being almost dead scale .
RIMG3982.JPG
The furthest set of wheels have had their flanges thinned and reduced in depth, the back to back has been increased too, note the brass washer !
Track and wheel S001.jpg
Those three sets of standards, as best I could find .
Any thoughts ?
 
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jamiepage

Western Thunderer
Without doubt your modified wheels look a lot better.
What flange width and depth did you turn down to, please? Certainly the 2.3mm flange depth (G3 standard for unsprung vehicles) is visually pretty clunky, but reducing even only to the sprung standard of 2.0mm improves the look appreciably.
And have you thinned the tyres overall at all? (Presumably the tyres are or were the Slaters 7mm width?)

Personally, although I could easily be swayed by the Spur II standards, I can live with G3 standards with 'sprung standard' flanges.
Whilst turning them down, I would like to recess the wheel rear faces a little. (I can hear the Guv' there).
Finally, I'd like to have replacement waisted axles as well to push them onto. I did think about commissioning a batch actually.
 
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geoff_nicholls

Western Thunderer
I've had difficulty with the 58mm back-to-back when designing frames for a loco, and when laying track in a street with a check rail, the gap was noticeable. 60mm sounds better, but would wheels to those standards run through Cliff Barker's ready-built turnouts?
 

Mike W

Western Thunderer
I have insufficient practical experience to comment on the subject, but am totally with Jamie on waisted axles. Would Slaters do them as a option I wonder?

Mike
 

unklian

Western Thunderer
Jamie, I turned down my Slaters 7mm wide wheels by skimming 0.5mm off the entire back of the wheel, thus reducing the flange to 1.5mm wide and the tyre to 6.5mm wide. I then reduced the height of the flange to 1.4mm. This puts them within Spur II tolerance and almost within scale tolerance . I do like the idea of waisted axles, they do become noticeable in this scale. If the 4mm boys can do it ......

Geoff, wheels with 60mm back to back probably wont work on Cliff's track. Wheels to these dimensions will fit through any G3 turnouts, it is wether the check rails are positioned to do their job that matters. What is the width across the outside of the checks on Cliff's track ? By my calculations an absolute minimum of 58mm would be needed for wheels with 1.5mm flanges and 60mm back to back. Cliff's check rail chairs give a check gap of 3.5mm , so with 63.5mm gauge the over checks dimension is 56.5mm . Which is of course spot on to the Society standards and fine for wheels with up to 2mm wide flanges and 58mm back to back. It is interesting that Slaters wheels with a 2mm flange are actually outside the Society standard. Also it should be pointed out that the 58mm back to back is the minimum and 58.4mm is the maximum with 1.6mm flanges. So woe betide anyone with 2mm flanges and a back to back of more than 58mm !

The important dimensions are the check gauge on the track and the check clearance on the wheels set. The latter must always be smaller than the former.

Of course the big visual difference on track is the difference between a 3.5mm check gap and a 2mm one !
 
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jamiepage

Western Thunderer
Thank you for the wheel turning info. Those wheels do look a lot better. I'll need to sit down with pen and paper, and give it some thought.
Someone - can't for the life of me remember who- did produce S7 wheelsets with waisted axles a few years ago, and I used them on a few wagons.
IMG_0001.JPG

it's subtle, but it does show.
 

djparkins

Western Thunderer
Were they Pemberton Models wheels?They were the best around a few years back....

Yes Mark - Pemberton were absolutely the best. I have just a few sets of his wagon wheels but wish I had purchased more of both the wagon wheelsets and their coach wheels for my Mk.1 stock. The rolling stock and dmu wheels were are profiled on the rear for an extra charge. Fortunately I did get a good stock of the Sprinter wheels in and I'm keeping them for my own use!

We very much need the equivalent in wheels today. All his wheels [or all of the ones I have] were insulated at the rim. I also fortunately kept a load of his diesel wheels and one set of his 08 wheels - all with threaded axles for easy removal too. His wheels ran totally true.

Sorry for the thread hijack!

DJP/MMP
 

Mike W

Western Thunderer
Pemberton. Gosh, not heard that name for years. He also did some superb LNWR boiler mountings in 7mm. All turned individually by hand so far as I could see. Do we know anyone capable of making batches of wheels like that today and what were the wheels themselves made of?

Mike
 

markjj

Western Thunderer
Do we know anyone capable of making batches of wheels like that today and what were the wheels themselves made of?

Mike

The closest thing we have today are possibly those from a new supplier Peartree Engineering but still nothing like those supplied by Pemberton Models. I to wish I had stocked up on the Pemberton wheels as David says but alas I didn't. I'm stuck with a rather large pile of Slaters ones to use up for now...... with all this ready to run stuff available I doubt anything will come forward to improve things as things seem to be rolling backwards not forwards.....
 

Mike W

Western Thunderer
Peartree are great and Malcolm really understands engineering, but he is geared up for turning steel bar which is great for the wheels he does, but spoked wheels are a different thing altogether.

Mike
 

djparkins

Western Thunderer
I'm stuck with a rather large pile of Slaters ones to use up for now...... with all this ready to run stuff available I doubt anything will come forward to improve things as things seem to be rolling backwards not forwards.....

Indeed they do Mark - I couldn't agree more. Somehow that period in 7mm seemed very exciting.
 

markjj

Western Thunderer
Indeed they do Mark - I couldn't agree more. Somehow that period in 7mm seemed very exciting.

It sure was David but like all good things they come to an end.... Very few people today have the skill or patience to appreciate true finescale I think they have become spoilt....
 

Mike W

Western Thunderer
Tell us more Ian. Like profile? tapered axles? journal size? wheel diameter?

First thought was ouch, that's expensive. Then thought that's only double Slaters cost and circa 15% cost of a typical wagon kit. Then I realised that was per axle, which makes them 30%. Just too much for me.

One question which might reduce the cost of any home-made equivalents - do people feel that insulation is necessary in G3? Considering I know only one person who uses 2-rail?

Mike
 
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