Finney 7 Adam's T3 4-4-0

Discussion in 'Area 51' started by P A D, 13 June 2019.

  1. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    I'm still chivvying away at the chassis with not a lot to show for my efforts. To finish off the crankpins I made some lock nuts from brass rod in the lathe and the cotterpins from 0.5mm brass wire. Here are two of them along with the simple tool for tightening them. It's just a piece of suitable tube that fits over the nuts, with a slot each side that locates in the cotter pin. You can of course us a pin vice as suggested by Rob Pulham. The nut is quite thin and is soldered to the outer bush for strength. 20190703_191408.jpg

    And in place on the chassis.

    They are not a perfect replica of the real thing, but better than the LG ones and a whole lot better than the 10BA Slaters nut.

    It's hard to see in this image, but I also turned up a bush to replace the 8 washers on the bogie retaining nut. The ride height looks OK and I was able to give it a push around the curves on my brother's layout. I expected the bogie wheels to foul the splashers but it ran around the curves OK. I'll post a video later.

    With all running smoothly, I added the slidebar brackets, cylinder covers, piston tail rod guides and the tail rod. The tail rod is 1.2mm NS rod but is supplied as a short length cut from a roll. I annealed it and straightened by rolling on a flat surface, but I'm not happy with it and will replace when I have sourced a straight length.

    The tail rods are quite close to the front splasher, but unless the painter piles the paint on with a hosepipe, it should OK.

    I misunderstood the instructions and added the drain cocks but I will have to remove them to fit the wrapper. The bolt for limiting the side play of the rear bogie wheels has been replaced with some smooth rod, as there was a tendency for the threads to snag on sides of the slot in ghf bogie bracket.

    A view of the cylinders from the front. The glands are two etchings spaced with 0.8mm rod to represent the fixing bolts.

    Next the inside valve gear, which is a simplified version of Stephenson's Link Motion. Here are the parts laid out on the instructions.

    These are the valve rod glands in the rear of the cylinders. Again two etchings and rods for the nuts.

    The valve guides gave been added to the valve gear spacer from brass tube and the cast valve rods prepped.

    Left hand cylinder and con rod. With the slid bar bracket soldered in place, the crosshead can no longer be removed.

    T'other side.

    And the whole nine yards.

    Once I get all the moving bits out of the way I can hopefully crack on at a better pace.

    Last edited: 3 July 2019
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  2. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Here's the video of the test on my brother's layout.

    This one shows the movement of the piston tail rod.
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  3. Deano747

    Deano747 Active Member

    Nice clean work as always, Peter!

    Regards, Deano.
  4. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Thanks Deano.

    Here are the eccentric rods and eccentrics under assembley, with one set pinned together and cleaned up.

    Here it is all assembled. The eccentrics are fixed to the axle with loctite so the valve gear is not removable. However, it should be possible to remove the cylinders and the valve gear may be dropped below and masked off for painting.




    There's not a great deal movment for all the time and effort it takes to fit the gear, but if was an interesting exercise.

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  5. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    Pure artistry...
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  6. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Thanks Larry.

    I see I need to move the inner lifting link on the right closer to the frame.

    Next up, the draw bar. The kit provides a short and long option, no doubt to suit the curves that the loco will have to negotiate. The draw bar is fixed to a length of tube and then located with a length of brass rod. I opted to tap the lower fixing hole 10 BA and replace the rod with a counter sunk bolt. That way the owner can switch draw bars to suit the curves.

    For now I have fitted the short draw bar.

    Here you can see the tapped lower bracket. I may shorten the bolt later depending on how visible it is when all the rear end details are on.

    The pull rods and cross beams are made up from three laminates pinned with 0.8mm rod to represent the fixings. Notice the wide lugs on the end of the cross beams. The instructions suggest adding short length of 0.8mm rod to act as the lower fixings to the brake hangers. To do that you would need to remove the lugs and solder the short lengths of rod to the ends of the beams. On Gladiator cross beams there is a half etch slot to line up the rod. Also the etched holes in the hangers are about 1.2mm diameter.

    Here's the rest of the rigging prepped up. The top fixing holes are 0.8mm so you can see how large the bottom ones are. I have rounded the etched lugs to fit the hangers and they should pass muster when soldered and cleaned up.

    A quick dry run shows that all's well.

    The balancd weights are now in place, one brass and one nickel silver. Mr Finney optimising the use of the sheets no doubt.

  7. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    The valve gear has been bugging me over the weekend. As I mentioned, there is not a lot of movement when the chassis is rolling, but there was virtually no movement in the expansion link. After looking at videos of Stephenson's gear and re reading the instructions several times, the penny dropped, so I dismantled and rebuilt it correctly.

    As originally assembled the eccentrics were not mated so that one led the other and as a result, the eccentric rods were not moving relative to each other. In effect I had paired up the halves incorrectly so swapping them round put things to rights. If you look closely at the brass flanges either side of the paired rods, you can see that one is in advanced of the other. When rolling, the rods now reciprocate in opposite directions and the expansion link now moves. :thumbs:


    This shows it better.

    Captain cock up definitely paid me a visit, but I did battle with him and he is now vanquished!

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  8. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    So back to the brake rigging which is now done and dusted.

    And view from the underside. I've taken the valve gear out and it will be refitted after painting when the eccentrics will be fixed to the axles with loctite, the real stuff not super glue.

    That's the chassis done for now and a start was made on the body. As is usual with Finney kits, the running plate is built up on a jig which will be cut off later I the build.

    For a "simple" 4-4-0 loco it has more splashers than you can shake a stick at. So far there are the 4 on the frames above the bogie, plus 4 more now on the running plate for the crank pins. Later in the build there will be the main driving wheel splashers to add so that will be 12 in all! Bloody Victorians with all their curves and brass beading.


    Now that I'm on the superstructure the progress will be more dramatic.

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  9. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    I made a quick check of the fit of the RG7 in the frames and it may be that some filing of the compensation beams will be in order for it to fit properly. I won't know for sure until the superstructure is in place.

    On the bodywork, the cab sides/main splasher sides were fitted and the cab front/splasher tops curved to shape.

    Here the cab front/splasher tops have been fitted and a start made on the smoke box and the boiler/firebox.

    The rear support for the roof has been fitted and a quick trial fit of the boiler and smoke box has been made. My original intention of having the boiler/firebox and smokebox removable as a sub section, will not be feasable as the firebox sides will be too flexible to remain aligned with the splasher tops if they are not soldered. The kit has 2 options for the boiler, one with etched boiler bands and one without. The painter prefers the one without bands. Separate smoke box wrappers are also provided to allow for early or later condition prototypes. The same goes for the cab sides/main splasher sides where options with and without beading are provided.

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  10. adrian

    adrian Flying Squad

    Very nice but just one query?- the previous photos had these large bargeboards on which seem to be absent now - are they just location jigs for the crankpin splashers or something else? and how are they removed?
    Screenshot 2019-07-10 at 23.15.05.png
  11. daifly

    daifly Western Thunderer

    The answer lies in the instructions. Page 10, right-hand column, second paragraph. The info is almost visible as the fifth para, right-hand side in the second of Peter's photos above!
  12. SimonT

    SimonT Western Thunderer

    there is a solution to the compensation beam problem. On some of Martin's designs there is no alternative to removing the centre part of the beam to allow the gearbox to fit. This requires both solder joints of the 1/8" brass rod to the frames to be totally secure; a one piece beam soldered at both ends provides a mitigation to the failure of the joint at one end.
    The 1854/2721 provides an example.

    The geometry of the hornblock cutaways and the 3mm length of the tube stops the beams going walk about.

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  13. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Hi Adrian,
    The barge boards are strengtheners for the running plate edge during early construction. On the underside there is a half etch gap about 2mm wide running the length of the board. As it's about 2 inches long I didn't fancy cutting it with the piercing saw, so by inverting the body and placing on a cutting mat at the edge of the bench, I was able to scribe a line using the outer edge of the half etch as a guide. Once the line was deep enough, I held the board in the vice and gently bent the body until the line snapped. It was then filed and sanded down to tidy up.

    Thanks for your input. However, it's the edge of the motor that is rubbing on the beams so it will hinder the free movement of the compensation. There is about a 1mm gap to the tube so I can move it further that way if it allows the body to sit down ok. I will then have to grind the tops of the beams to clear the motor as they cannot be moved closer to the frames or they will not move freely.

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  14. SimonT

    SimonT Western Thunderer

    Steph had a brian wave and remembered that Martin had a modification to the RG7 gearbox to make it fit in the T3. We didn't repeat it in the instructions as who has RG7s these days? Attached is a pdf of the CAD which you should be able to print off and use as a template.


    Attached Files:

  15. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Many thanks Simon.
    I had considered modifying the gearbox frames so this helps.
  16. Steph Dale

    Steph Dale Western Thunderer

    Hehehehe; don't tell @oldravendale... :D

    Last edited: 11 July 2019 at 21:27
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  17. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Only managed a short shift today but got the boiler and smokebox finished off ready to fit to the running plate. On the boiler, the upper cleat was added along with fitting 0.5mm wire to the 3 cleats on the underside to represent the bolts. After that it was mostly cleaning up excess solder before screwing the two units together and then trying on the running plate. At the moment the three units are still separate with the smokebox fastened to the boiler with a 6BA bolt. That sub unit is then screwed to the running plate at the front with a 6 BA bolt into the bass of the smokebox and a 12BA bolt fastens the rear to the cab.

    I'm pleased with the result and if should solder up nicely. I noted in an earlier photo that the rivet strip on the left ag the front was not seated correctly, so a dab of flux and a quick waft with the Solderpro allowed it to pushed down into position with the end of a small screwdriver. Still lots of cleaning up to do especially on the underside but that will come later after the jig has been cut off. It's a shame the boiler can't be left removable to aid painting and lining, but the running plate would be too flimsy after the jig has been removed and the firebox sides would flex and not be a tight fit against the splashers without soldering.

    Those brackets on the front splashers are for a couple of oil boxes and may need beefing up as they are quite flimsy.
    Last edited: 12 July 2019 at 09:08
  18. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    This afternoon I got the three subsections soldered together and then I removed the sacrificial jig and the "T" section between the running plate. The instructions suggest adding the detail parts before doing this but I could see no advantage in that and felt it would be easier to hold the model to do the cleaning up before all the decorations were on.

    How on earth Mr. Finney could design such a complex series of flat etched parts that after bending and folding make this is beyond me

    A couple of views from the rear. 20190712_191521.jpg


    And a view of the innards. With so many seams and nooks and crannies, it took an age to clean up.

    With the jig removed it was now possible to check the fit on the chassis.



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  19. michl080

    michl080 Western Thunderer


    a fantastic model of a very elegant prototype.

  20. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Many thanks Michael.

    Victorian engines with "roller coaster " splashers are not really my thing, but now that it's coming together, it is starting to grow on me. I was a bit wary of the inside valve gear and the uppy downy splashers, but it is Finney 7 so all the parts are extremely accurate and fit as they should.

    A couple of points on the removal of the jig. First the cross member at the bottom are cut through with a cutting disc in the mini drill. It is then possible to carefully and slowly bend each side of the jig back and forth until they snap off. It's a risky strategy so you need to go slow a little at a time so that the hanging plate is not distorted. The tabs themselves then need to be filed level. If the hanging plate is to be lined with a spring bow pen, then particular attention needs to be given to the smoothing of the tabs, otherwise deflections of the lining will occur, much to the chagrin of the painter.

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