Prototype Dundalk Newry and Greenore Railway

Mike W

Western Thunderer
As requested on another thread this one one can discuss the DNGR - a wholly owned subsidiary of the LNWR in Ireland. This is the first part of the wagon diagram book, a copy of which I obtained from Kew about 30 years ago at RAIL 162/21. I only noticed recently that I don't have a copy of the contents page, but have two copies of D1 instead, but it doesn't really matter because there are only ten pages in the book, plus the cover. Here are the first five:

(attachments deleted 16th June as better copies posted below)
 
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Mike W

Western Thunderer
Sorry - didn't realise that the file names would not be displayed. These are D1 to D5 in sequence.

Mike
 

AndyB

Western Thunderer
Mike - can I suggest that the colours of your scans are inverted?
Would make printing easier for people.
If you don't have the technology, wizz the original files over to me and I'll do it for you.

Andy
 

AndyB

Western Thunderer
Mike's files - inverted and cleaned up as necessary.
In reverse order...
D10 - Brake Van
DNGR D10.jpg
D9 - Cattle Wagon
DNGR D9.jpg
D8 - Covered Goods Wagon
DNGR D8.jpg
D7 - Covered Goods Wagon
DNGR D7.jpg
D6 - Timber Wagon
DNGR D6.jpg
D5 - Ballast Wagon 10T
DNGR D5.jpg
D4 - Ballast Wagon 7T
DNGR D4.jpg
D3 - Loco Coal Wagon
DNGR D3.jpg
D2 - Coal Wagon
DNGR D2.jpg
D1 - 7T Open
DNGR D1.jpg

Andy
 
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Mike W

Western Thunderer
Thanks Andy. As you might expect, most have exact equivalents in the LNWR diagram book except that these are wider. That ballast wagon interested me at the time because it was shorter and I assume the design lasted in Ireland after it had become extinct in England. There are pictures of some of these DNGR types, but so far as I am aware not all.

Mike
 

Mike W

Western Thunderer
The post-1890 DNGR carriages are covered by the LNWRS publication on 30ft 1in stock and all I know of the earlier carriages is that the brake vans look to be 26ft. There is a Crewe GA of one of the locomotives which I think was rebuilt from a DX Goods. So, for anyone wanting to model this line there are possible aids available.

Mike
 

Overseer

Western Thunderer
The post-1890 DNGR carriages are covered by the LNWRS publication on 30ft 1in stock and all I know of the earlier carriages is that the brake vans look to be 26ft. There is a Crewe GA of one of the locomotives which I think was rebuilt from a DX Goods. So, for anyone wanting to model this line there are possible aids available.

Mike
Thanks Mike, very useful. It looks like this copy of the diagram book wasn't updated as I think there were some later wagon types in use before the goods stock was transferred to the NCC in 1932 when the GN took over operation. The carriage stock appears in lots of photos, especially the 30'1" stock and the LNWRS book is very useful. The earlier carriages were sold off to other railways and often lasted another 50 years in service so there are photos but it is a case of working out which carriages are ex-DN&GR. There were also a couple of generations of bogie stock used on longer distance trains which from memory were transferred to the NCC as well.
 

Mike W

Western Thunderer
And Oversear, don't for get the superb preserved carriage in Ulster. I have not managed to see this yet, but from photographs it looks very original and we are copying some details of the interior, notably luggage rack brackets, for an LNWR carriage restoration.

Mike
 
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Overseer

Western Thunderer
The carriage at Cultra is well worth a trip to see for anyone interested in LNWR carriages.

It looks like all the goods stock, apart from the diagram 4 ballast wagon, have direct equivalents in the LNWR diagram book. Certainly makes building models easier as good photos are available of the LNWR versions.
 

Overseer

Western Thunderer
One of very few photos I have seen showing any detail of DNGR goods rolling stock is a HC Casserley photograph taken at Greenore Station on 4 June 1932 which is included in 'Lost Railways of Dundalk and the North East' by Stephen Johnson published by Stenlake Publishing. This is a scan of one corner of the published photo.
Greenore wagons.jpg
It would be good to see any other photos taken during that trip, or a better scan of this one to see if more detail can be made out. Note the livery is still the pre 1909 diamonds only with the ownership shown on the numberplate. It looks like two Diag 1 opens and three Diag 3 Loco Coal Wagons but the second one could be a Diag 4 coal wagon. Note no 'LOCO' lettering on any of the wagons which they would have had on the LNWR.
 

Overseer

Western Thunderer
I remembered where another photo showing DNGR wagons was, in the National Library of Ireland collection. These are two extracts from the same image, for research purposes. Taken at Greenore sometime around 1900, before the locos were fitted with cab roofs and while an original passenger brake van was still in service.

Looks like D1 2 plank opens on the left.
DNGR wagons 2.jpg

A D3 Loco coal wagon at the head of the rake. I have just noticed that the photo in the previous post and this one show that the loco coal wagons had side doors which are not shown on diagram D3, or on the presumed LNWR equivalent D64 wagons.
DNGR wagons Greenore 1.jpg

I do not know whether the other wagons in both rakes, which look like they are 3 plank, are DNGR or other stock. There must be more photographs showing DNGR wagons somewhere.
 

lankytank

Western Thunderer
Can't work out if the one nearest the camera, over on the left of the second picture, peering out from behind the coal wagon, has had a coat of lime wash or is due to visit the repair shop?
 

Mike W

Western Thunderer
Superb. Thank you Overseer. Looking back at the Casserley picture the 2-plank wagons have different bolt patterns on the corner plates - nearest two per plank but other 3 per plank. And the 4-plank wagons also don't have the usual LNWR bolt patterns - more like GWR with bolts just along the edge. Maybe we can't assume they were just like LNWR wagons.

Mike
 

Overseer

Western Thunderer
Can't work out if the one nearest the camera, over on the left of the second picture, peering out from behind the coal wagon, has had a coat of lime wash or is due to visit the repair shop?
Both by the look of it, this image overlaps the centre of the two previous images -
DNGR wagons 3.jpg

I assumed the roofless cattle trucks where not DNGR stock because there was significant trade in cattle being shipped to England from the SLNCR and other west coast areas which brought lots of other companies wagons to Greenore, but there are three of them in the photo. I really don't know but would like to.
 

john lewsey

Western Thunderer
If the cattle wagons are the LNWR Mike Osborne has made two excellent models of them although obviously standard gauge .I would like to see some more photos of these although I am sure they are few
John
 

Mike W

Western Thunderer
The cattle wagons don't have the usual shaped headstocks like other LNWR and DNGR wagons.

Mike
 
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