Converting Lionheart Auto Trailer to S7

daifly

Western Thunderer
I'll have a measure up in a couple of days when I get home but I'm fairly sure that length over the Peartree axles+ bearings will be several mm more than the original Lionheart ones which will require milling or drilling the rear of the axle boxes to accommodate the extra length. The Lionheart bearings are also a much larger diameter than the Peartree or Slater's ones so new mountings would also need to be fabricated - not a major problem in itself but just another faff.
 

Overseer

Western Thunderer
If it were mine I would use Exactoscale phosphor bronze bearings. The axle ends of the Peartree wheels, for example, would need to be turned down to 1mm diameter and shortened to suit, and either the pinpoint bearings modified to hold the Exactoscale bearings or new pieces turned to suit the side frames. This should easily fit in the space available without modifying the side frames, and thinking about it if new bearing holders were made the original parts could be reinstalled in the future. Parallel turning the ends of the axles is easier than turning a taper at the right length and produces a longer lasting bearing especially with the greater mass of 7mm models.
 

daifly

Western Thunderer
If it were mine I would use Exactoscale phosphor bronze bearings. The axle ends of the Peartree wheels, for example, would need to be turned down to 1mm diameter and shortened to suit, and either the pinpoint bearings modified to hold the Exactoscale bearings or new pieces turned to suit the side frames. This should easily fit in the space available without modifying the side frames, and thinking about it if new bearing holders were made the original parts could be reinstalled in the future. Parallel turning the ends of the axles is easier than turning a taper at the right length and produces a longer lasting bearing especially with the greater mass of 7mm models.
I like this idea. The Peartree axles are approx 1mm too long as they come but reducing the diameter and length would be an easier proposition. I shall order some Exactoscale bearings and report back. Thanks for the suggestion.
Dave
 

daifly

Western Thunderer
Well I bought some Exactoscale bearings but decided that they were just too small and fiddly for my purposes. I'm sure they will come in useful for something. Exactoscale on the left, LH (Lionheart) originals on the right.
1 Bearing comparison.jpg
I decided to fabricate something resembling the LH originals. A filed down PT (Peartree) bearing, a large diameter 6BA washer and a short length of some brass tube (a snug fit over the bearing) were soldered together and cleaned up. That's a LH bearing on the right.
2 Components.jpg
The axles were also shortened - slightly too much as it happens. The above photo shows original and shortened axles.
The bogie was reassembled but it became apparent that I had failed to consider an important dimension - the distance between the bearing front face (which contacts the wheel hub) and the washer rear face (which contacts the bogie beam). Because my fabrication was too slim in this dimension, there was too much lateral movement of bearings and axles in the bogie frame. However, the principle appeared to be sound.
These are the principle bogie parts:
3b Bogie parts.jpg
The bearings sit in the beam like this:
3 Bearings in place.jpg
The bogie side has a slot to allow the rear of the bearing which protrudes behind the beam to move vertically providing basic compensation.
There are several plastic pins which are used to locate the various parts and these are very fragile. I managed to shear several but repaired by drilling a 0.7mm hole in the plastic part and supergluing a short piece of 0.8mm steel rod as the locator in the hole intended for the plastic pin to fit into (and yes, the way I drill, 0.8mm DOES fit into a 0.7mm hole!). You can see a 'mod' at the right of this frame. The small boss at top centre is where the beam locates and pivots.
4 Sideframe slot and mod.jpg
Photo of the assembled bogie on the right with LH original on the left.
7 LH L new R.jpg
I then made some slightly thicker bearings. This time with 2 larger washers which fitted over the slightly longer lengths of tube.
5 New Components.jpg
These were thicker and the axles for the second bogie were just filed back by c0.5mm on each side. LH originals to the right.
6 new L LH R.jpg
This time everything fitted fine. The first bogie was reworked, all of the broken locating pins bodged/repaired and everything was reassembled.
8 Done.jpg
I'll take it to Mark next week for a run around the test track to see if it behaves OK and for anyone remotely interested to inspect the bodgery!
Dave
p.s. the FS C&L track visible in the last photo is part of a full-size mock up of my Challenge 33+3 entry. More on that later.
 

Overseer

Western Thunderer
A good, straight forward solution which should work well. The Exactoscale bearings do look very small from here. Are they the 4 mm version or the 7mm ones?
 

daifly

Western Thunderer
A good, straight forward solution which should work well. The Exactoscale bearings do look very small from here. Are they the 4 mm version or the 7mm ones?
I could only find one size: E4CW 603A - Bearings, parallel phos. bronze, 1mm ID, 2mm OD. If Exactoscale did a 7mm version at one time, they don't appear to do it any more.
This solution is far more low-tech than originally envisaged. I hope that it runs well too. I have a new Masterpiece S7 14xx to pull it so will hopefully be able to give both a run at Mark.
 

SimonT

Western Thunderer
Dave,
I think you will find that they are 4mm bearings. The 4 in E4CW is the clue. I got some from C & L for my own chassis etches and they were coded E7BE 202B by Peter. I still have stock if you want some for the trailer.
Simon
 

daifly

Western Thunderer
Dave,
I think you will find that they are 4mm bearings. The 4 in E4CW is the clue. I got some from C & L for my own chassis etches and they were coded E7BE 202B by Peter. I still have stock if you want some for the trailer.
Simon
Thanks for the offer Simon. I thought they were likely to be a bit undersized. If I ever do another I'll know where to come!
Dave
 

Wagonman

Western Thunderer
I'll contact Richard K and offer a few words/pics. There is at least one other person who wants to do the conversion (GWR Jim who started this thread!)
Dave

Hi Dave

Your email arrived via Rob Thompson, but the process of forwarding seems to have stripped out your email address so I can't reply direct. However I can state here and now that I would be delighted to receive an article from you on this conversion. Length? How long do you need? Most articles come in at between 1500 and 4000 words, plus photos (.jpg is fine, 300dpi so file size 1.8MB or upwards). It's best if you send stuff direct to my personal email which is richard (underscore) kelham (at) yahoo (dot) co (dot) uk. Many thanks – and to my Agent/Talent Scout, Heather!


Richard
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
Dave,

Now that you have achieved your objective I hope that you do not mind answering an off of the topic question about the Lionheart autocoach.

Your pictures show how electricity is collected from the wheels... and one of the photos shows a couple of wires disappearing into the depths of the underframe... so:-

* where do the wires go within the carriage body?
* how is the power distributed around the body?

I ask because I have contemplated how to light the coach rather than how to install bird song.

thanks, Graham
 

daifly

Western Thunderer
Hi Graham
My arrangement has foregone the pickup capability as rationalised in post #2. The original LH arrangement (with split axles) transfers the power via the pickups from both bogies via the wires to a single floor level contact point within a hollow bulkhead. Power is then transferred to roof level via some sprung brass rods (in the box when purchased) from there the power can be distributed as required. The LH DCC conversion kit has roof lighting built in to a full-length pcb all controlled by a Zimo chip. See my FS conversion thread from 2 years ago here.
I can bring both autocoaches to Mark if you would like to see them.
Cheers
Dave
 

GWR Jim

Western Thunderer
Hello David.
Many thanks for bring along the Autocoach now fitted with Scale 7 wheels. Your comments and demo regarding regauging will, I'm sure be a help to me as soon as I make room on my work brench!!
It was good to meet up and indeed see so many folk that reside here abouts. I look forward to next year.
Thanks must also go to all who had a contribution into this puzzle and I'm sure other members will come forward with their own conversations in time, as we now know as David Nicholson has carried out 2 and both different. :confused:
As we all know 'modelling is Fun'
James.
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
Finally I have managed to remove the screws which hold the bogies to the underframe - the screws are very tight in the underframe fitting point and my range of screwdrivers does not include a PH type of the correct size. Removal of the screws does allow the bogie to drop away from the floor and only as far as allowed by the wires for the lights etc., the wires appear to be secured within the body and hence no slack in the wiring to the bogies.

Next step was to remove the roof and look for the wires... roof off and no visible wiring (this model is non-Dec and non-lighting). There are two screws in the floor to retain the floor / seat mouldings... not able to get the seat mouldings out as yet because the seats snag on the window mouldings (and that is without getting anywhere near to the tabs which retain the roof).

Where does the wiring go under the seat moulding?

How do I get the seats out of the body?

Thank you, Graham
 

Ressaldar

Western Thunderer
Where does the wiring go under the seat moulding?

How do I get the seats out of the body?

Thank you, Graham

Hi Graham,

It is far too hot for that many questions - it is almost like the end credits of a Piggy Malone & Charles Farley episode on the two Ronnies

Regards

Mpike
 

daifly

Western Thunderer
Where does the wiring go under the seat moulding?
How do I get the seats out of the body?
Thank you, Graham
Graham
My post #35 above answers the first question. As to the second, you’re on your own! Presumably the glazing will need to be removed to allow removal of the seats but if you just need to get power to the roof there is surely another route for the wiring that doesn’t require wholesale dismantling?
Dave
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
A suggestion received recently is that MRJ 221 might be helpful as that issue contains an article, by Barry Norman, in which the interior of a Lionheart auto trailer is enhanced.

Anyone able to scans the article for me?

Thank you, Graham
 
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