Building the JLTRT Rebuilt Royal Scot

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Well, another step forward and then a huge leap back to the dark ages.....

Firstly, this is where I was, with the nicely fitting tender internals and partially formed side overlays.

IMG_20200707_171034239.jpg
I'd already formed the tender tops so now moved on to the returns at the front, using the formed "mould" as described by Ian and the material as suggested by Simon. Here's the result - actually not too dusty, I thought.

IMG_20200710_153512991.jpg

Well, I knew I was capable of making some spectacular mistakes but this one takes the biscuit.

Having got one side on the tender I was going to test the cast fire iron tunnel for fit to see if any adjustment might be needed. Low and behold - no castings for the tender! None at all, lost wax or white metal. Anglo Saxon was applied and I came indoors. It's no excuse but I'd picked up and cursorily viewed so many bags of castings for this kit I assumed that that there must be some for the tender in there. And we all know, as do I to my cost many times previously, that assumption is the mother of all ****-ups.

I knew the kit to be "pre-owned" and have always advised everyone I know taking that risk to check the contents carefully. A classic do as I say, not as I do, and it's come back to bite me.

So now I'm hoping that Laurie at MM1 might have a set. Otherwise I think the only option is to buy another kit for a tender and pair it with the JLTRT one. I'll have a look at LG's castings as well but I doubt he'll have a full set.

Bloody idiot!!! If I had a brain cell I'd be dangerous.

I think I'll simply now get the body to a stage where there's no outstanding etch work in the hope that the detailing gubbins will be available from somewhere.

Brian
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Now is the time for some thanks all round, and a reminder of what a wonderful inclusive hobby this is.

Firstly, David. Thank you so much for your offer of help. For the reason below I'll not take you up on it at this time but I truly appreciate your thought. Have a safe flight home.

Secondly I emailed and then spoke to Laurie. He said that the kit has not been made for at least ten years and actually wasn't a very good seller - I'm surprised at that but it looks as though the JLTRT/MM1 Royal Scot won't be reintroduced any time soon. However Laurie did a search through all his brass castings and has been able to make up a set. He's also casting the white metal components for me within the next week. How's that for service?

Mojo restored I'll try to get out of the garden work and start back in the workshop. May be better to finish clearing out the garden shed first, though.....:)

Brian
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
So, mojo restored I got on with the etch work in anticipation of he arrival of the castings.

Current situation: Most etched stuff in place including steps, lamp irons and the bases for the water filler and trough dome. Beading also complete over the dividing plates and rivet strips along the tender tank top. This is probably the best view of the curve on the tender top as well.

IMG_20200716_171735650.jpg

Tender front fitted by the power of gravity but showing the aforementioned "returned" tender sides with which, it has to be said, I'm rather pleased.

Thank you to Simon T and Ian for your advice in forming these.

IMG_20200716_171719651.jpg

Brian
 

jonte

Western Thunderer
Pleased to see that your plea was answered, and deservingly so, Brian.

And oh, how I envy the ‘neatness’ of your build too. An example to us all.

Best wishes,

Jonte
 

P A D

Western Thunderer
Hi Brian,
Glad you've recovered from your set back. I'm in a similar position with the BR86 although in my case, it's me who has lost the parts. Strange that the kit was a poor seller, as I understood it was the best of the available kits for this prototype. Having said that, the Gladiator kit builds up very nicely and would have had a good price advantage. I may be tempted in the future.

Super build by the way.

Cheers,
Peter
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Heather - a quick note to pass on further thanks for the access to your earlier partial build. You've saved me a lot of time with detailing the tender front, some of the detail of which was rather unclear in the instructions.

Brian
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Sorry to say, mojo has indeed gone on holiday. Very strange from my perspective, and the first time ever. I probably need to concentrate on something really hard for a few days, realise that it's not as much fun as kit building and mojo will be restored.:(

So, a tiny bit of progress since my last post. The front of the tender is complete apart from castings. Much soldering of really tiny components which usually gives me so much satisfaction but was so much drudgery this time which is why I think some time away from the bench is in order. The photo below is after washing but before polishing off the witness marks from the RSU.

IMG_20200725_161855205.jpg

I did, however, start the preparation of the chassis. Those axle holes appear to be designed to take 3/16" axles without any additional bearing. The frames are from thick nickel silver - I've not checked it for thickness, but trust me - it's thick - so it may be OK as a surface without any inserted bearing. The instructions are silent on the point. However (and why do I do this to myself?) the wheels I'll be using are AGH, insulated one side. I want the frames to be totally insulated and also to use sprung hornblocks so the axle holes will have to be removed and hornblocks put in place. In fact, however, removal of the axle holes leaves a slot which is just right for a square Slaters insulated bearing so might that be the way to go, with a bit of jiggery pokery to install a tapped tab for an adjusting screw and a wire bearing retainer? It'd be possible, I suppose, but quite an ugly solution to my mind.

The alternative is insulated sprung hornblocks as used on most of my previous builds (the exceptions being the MOK Q1 and King Arthur which both utilised the compensation provided in the kits). Most frames have a half etched line around the bearing holes which, when cut out, allows a hornblock to fit. Not this time, though. Below you'll see a rough mark out of how Slaters and SDMP hornblocks will fit (the inner "square" lines) - in fact they don't and the width needs opening by an additional 3 mm or so, and the height raised by a couple of mm. Of itself not a problem, except that filing out to make the hornblocks fit will impinge on the slots for the frame spacers at the front. (There's nothing about frame spacers in the instructions either, but that's a really minor issue as anyone who's previously built a kit will know that there will be frame spacers involved somewhere). That may be solvable - in fact probably is - by reducing the tabs. The outer lines of the Slaters and SDMP hornblocks are shown below and they will cover the frame spacer location slots to some extent. Again it should be possible to fit the spacers behind them.

IMG_20200726_163425409_BURST000_COVER_TOP.jpg

I'm frankly bemused by this. At best it creates a lot of additional work for anyone wanting to fit sprung hornblocks, or even compensation, both of which are surely quite common and normal.

Let me know if I'm making a mountain out of a molehill - that's quite possible. However, any thoughts about a quicker/easier way out of this morass will be appreciated. I'm even starting to think that cutting out some new frames may be the best answer......

In its defence the fit of parts has been exceptionally good so I may be be misreading the intentions regarding the fitting of the wheels.

Brian

PS - the marking out by pen is just for the purposes of illustration. I'll be scribing the cutting lines in due course.
 

Eastsidepilot

Western Thunderer
Brian,
Looking at what your using I'd go for the Slater's insulated horn guides, just take out the edge of them where it interferes with frame spacers.
If it was a loco chassis I'd 'ave thrown it in the bin :D but you'll be alright with this.
By the way if you like the idea of using the Slaters insulated axle bearings they fit the Slaters brass hornguides a treat once you clean out the rib for the slotted brass bearings :thumbs:

IMG_0594.JPG

Col.
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Nice one, Col! You need a bit of lateral thinking. (I don't mean you - I mean me). In retrospect it's clear that removal of part of the guide itself would be the answer, at least in part.

Brian
 

Eastsidepilot

Western Thunderer
Nice one, Col! You need a bit of lateral thinking. (I don't mean you - I mean me). In retrospect it's clear that removal of part of the guide itself would be the answer, at least in part.

Brian

Where you have a horizontal spacer at the end of the chassis, marked SDMP, I'd replace the spacer with some brass angle cut at he ends to fit the rear half of the slot with the vrtical leg of the angle cut to fit between the chassis frames, if that makes sense :)
Col.
 

Eastsidepilot

Western Thunderer
Most times there's a way around these little problems, although sometimes it's easier to bin it and scratch build. I know that's easier said than done depending on what facilities you have, so we make the best of what we've got to play with.
There's an awful lot of kits out there that should read as "an aid to a semi scratch build" ....sometimes more appropriate to us buggers working in S7 :D

Col.
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Thanks Col, but I think "an aid to scratch build" is a bit extreme when applied to this kit! (I can think of a few, though......:)) Certainly it'd not be easy for any first time builder, but it's unlikely that a first time builder would start with this. In fact most kits which build well take a certain level of skill - even Jim McGeown's demand a certain understanding of first principles, although they are a great starting point for anyone putting a toe in the water.

No, so far the kit goes together well and in truth the problems are of my own making, as I want an electrically neutral chassis and some form of suspension or compensation. Your suggestions are truly helpful, and as you imply an alternative chassis may be the way to go, whether cut out from scratch or utilising another original I'm unsure at present. Having slept on it I reckon this chassis could be made to work but the design makes it more difficult than it needs to be. The suggestions of how to get round the issues are much appreciated.

It looks as though I have a busy week so it's unlikely that I'll get in to the workshop for any length of time for a while, apart from which Mr Mojo (acually probably Mrs Mojo) needs to return. I'll advise progress as I go.

Brian
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Just as a quick update.....

Laurie has come up trumps. A full set of tender castings were delivered on Thursday. Wonderful service and even better when you consider that the white metal has been cast to order.

IMG_20200802_091918217_BURST000_COVER_TOP.jpg

In other news (and nothing to show yet) I decided to stick with the tender frames as supplied. Many thanks for your suggestions, Col, which certainly got my grey matter (well, possibly rather beige by now) working and I've decided to go with the SDMP hornguides and Slater's insulated bearings. The SDMP hornguides are designed to solder in place and also have screw adjustment of the insulated bearing height. I had them in stock too. I also have a set of the new version Slater's insulated hornguides, but they are not adjustable, other than by filing the spring locating peg to length - the previous version had adjustment by means of a screw. My comedy cutting out of the slots for the hornguides guarantees that they'll not all be at precisely the same level so a system that allows a small amount of adjustment is crucial. Filing pegs to a critical length for three axles is akin to reducing the height of a table by sawing a chunk off the legs, and I've never been able to make a table level after that either!:)

I've not used the Slater's brass hornguides as proposed by Col but, providing there is some sort of adjustment possible with them, I reckon they'd work just as well.

The frames have been marked out and I'm now 66% through cutting the frames and fitting the hornguides. When complete photos will follow!

Brian
 
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OzzyO

Western Thunderer
Just spotted this set of posts, I think that your suppose to fit the Malcom Mitchel horn guides in the etched slots . Not sure how to keep them from going inwards though!

AB

OzzyO.
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
There's only six of 'em in the kit, Ozzy. I'm keeping them for the loco in the hope that the insulated bearings will fit them.

Brian
 
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