An Unusual Collection

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
This one - very poor photo, terribly underexposed and grain like footballs - but the subject matter is of great interest to me personally. It's clearly Harrow Met with a T stock train as the main item of interest. In the background is Odeon Radio, on the corner of the parade of shops centre left of the picture as referred to in a previous posting. Extreme left is a London Transport RT, possibly on route 140. Extreme right, behind the trees is "Sopers" department store.
img414  Top HC2515.  Bot KD - Copy.jpg

So I enlarged the section of interest to me and tried to build density and adjust contrast. This is the best I can do.

img414  Top HC2515.  Bot KD - Copy - Copy.jpg

This shot is attributed to "KD".

Brian
 

farnetti

Western Thunderer
T stock was before my time but I remember, as a small boy, being dragged around Sopers on several occasions and having some interest in Odeon Radio.

We lived in Ruislip Manor and there was (and still is) and small parade of shops in Manor Way. One of these (opposite the barbers) used to be an motor engineering concern but later changed to model engineering and dealt with early Unimat lathes and the like. I don't know if anyone else recalls it?

Ken
 

Oz7mm

Western Thunderer
Brian

I'm slightly confused by this image. Is the train just entering the station from Watford or Rickmansworth? My recollection is that Sopers was round the corner in Station Road, and a little googling this morning reveals there was another department store called Somertons in College Road.

John
 
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Yorkshire Dave

Western Thunderer
I'd say the photo is taken from the signal box which is at the top of the the station building accessed via stairs from platforms 5 and 6 (Aylesbury, services).
 

Engineer

Western Thunderer
Just a quick reaction to recent posts while I have some moments to spare. Thanks to the priorities of life, I’ve only followed the thread superficially for the last few pages so have a backlog of observations on a few pictures and reflections on the comments. Apologies, will get to these when I find some research time.

on Post 243 [and I recognise I’m not as fast as YD [post 244]]:
Here are some pictures from the stated viewpoint, to amplify that the view is looking roughly towards the Metropolitan’s north/west destinations by line of route;

From post P161: https://images.ltmuseum.co.uk/images/max/tq/i00006tq.jpg

From post 188: https://images.ltmuseum.co.uk/images/max/sm/i00006sm.jpg and https://images.ltmuseum.co.uk/images/max/qz/i00006qz.jpg

on Post 242:
Ruislip Manor is relatively local for me and there’s a family link to the Metropolitan Railway station there, so I’ve reason to remember the shop in Ruislip Manor. It had a sliding door at its entrance …? It was definitely more model engineering than models and interesting for that reason. My father and I visited fairly often for materials and consumables. My first lathe, an ancient single-foot Myford with flat belt drive came from that shop and gave me plenty of fun setting up the mechanics and electrics and then using it. Still have it even though I have a more sophisticated machine now.
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Dave - once again my thanks for your additional comments about the photo at Baker Street. This is helping to establish a reasonable bracket for the date.

.....and on to the photo of the "T" stock at Harrow. Firstly I've made the incorrect attribution. This should be "HC2515".

Interesting memories, Ken. John - my memory was entirely of Sopers being opposite the station, but you are entirely correct. :bowdown::'( My memories are not to be relied on! However, I remember Harrow Model Shop when it was on the bridge - memory says that it was in a ramshackle wooden building, but that may now be entirely incorrect!

Dave - I thought the photo was probably taken from the multi story car park next to the station - except, of course, it wasn't built at the time of the photo.

Engineer - once again loadsa useful stuff. Thanks so much for the digging and the interesting info that's come to light.

Another photo is nearly done. I'll try to get it posted this evening.

Brian
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
As I'd hoped, a new photo for tonight.

No 16, Oliver Goldsmith, withdrawn 1962 but not scrapped until 1966. I'm assuming used on shunting and freight duties after the end of steam hauled stock. In this photo we can't be certain of its reason for "being out", or, indeed, where this may be. I'm wondering about Neasden, but Harrow is again a possibility. The destination board is Uxbridge, so perhaps this is Harrow and the trees in the background may be the clue. In fact, studying the track behind the loco suggests that it's light engine. Could it be after 1962? A decent view of what I believe may be R stock passing (but I'll probably be corrected).

Credit for this one to "KD".

img414A  Top HC2515.  Bot KD - Copy.jpg

Brian
 

Yorkshire Dave

Western Thunderer
I believe this is the approach to Uxbridge. The Photographer is standing at the end of the platform under the York Road bridge.

The P stock is standing in the sidings - evidenced by the tall yard lamps in the background.

The trackwork does not match Ealing Common, Neadsen, Wembley Park nor Harrow flying junctions.

The photo date could be around 1962 or before as P stock appeared on the Uxbridge branch sooner than the test trains to Amersham during 1960 as observed earlier in the thread. However, if it is a later date is the loco on a brake van special?
 

Engineer

Western Thunderer
On yesterday’s post, another local one for me. Things I notice from the image as it comes: the splay in the negative rails in the centre of the view, fairly strong and high sun, 8-car P Stock, lighting masts in the yard, plenty of vegetation and a loco in respectable condition, outwardly. It’s on running lines, on its own and is either at rest or on the move slowly, most likely towards the camera and into platform 1.

I’ll suggest this is an ‘outside-the-peaks’ or weekend test run, fairly normal [*]. It is possible that the photographer had a hint to be there but my hunch is that the photographer has been on the trip, and has arranged for the loco to pause briefly, just in good light and nicely framed, and hopped out to get the shot. Skimming the Working Timetables, it seems as if P Stock 6- or 8-car trains were part of the Uxbridge service in varying quantities from the 1940s up to and including the June 1962 book, fewer in the very last years but typically up to seven 8-car trains out of a 20-24-train service. It's easily possible for a train in that part of the yard to be spare, or not required for service. Broadly, the picture might be any year from mid-1950s to 1961, and if I had to guess, either the middle years of that range or 1961 when so many pictures were taken. There’s a small date mark, on the left front panel of the loco, top left, just below the waist handrail. If the original will allow a very selective enlargement, this mark could suggest the most recent planned lift or overhaul, so may give us an ‘earliest’ date.

I’m behind by about three pages on observations for some pictures and my reflections on some of the comments made, partly because I’m going through drawings for evidence and partly work/life. Will get there eventually.

as an edit, a clarification [*] test runs to Uxbridge are convenient for Neasden, Ealing Common and Acton Works, and happen today, still.
 
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farnetti

Western Thunderer
Definitely not Harrow or Neasden so I agree with Yorkshire Dave unless destination board is wrong.

Ken
 

Ressaldar

Western Thunderer
very interesting to see that the 'third rail' was on the platform side through the stations, when did this change? The other noticable thing was the change from upper to lower quadrant signals from Harrow?

regards

Mike
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Great stuff again, chaps. Thanks for all the help about confirming Uxbridge - a station with which I'm totally unfamiliar - and also to Ken for an interesting film. It's of note that many of the "country" stations have never been rebuilt or replaced although the facilities have all been updated from time to time. With the listing of older buildings it's now unlikely that any of these will change significantly in the future. Of note is that, for example, the original buildings and footbridge are still present although the footbridge is unused and has been replaced with a more modern structure at Wendover

Moving on, two shots of Met loco No 1, "John Lyon". This looks likely to be on a special - both are identified "Watford 10 Jan 61 - C Gooch" with whom copyright resides. On the other hand were the electric locos used routinely on any of the Watford trains? One shot appears to be as the loco has brought the train in and is carrying a "Watford" destination board and the other having run round and ready to depart with a "Baker Street" board..... unless anyone knows differently.

"John Lyon" was withdrawn with most of the others on cessation of the loco hauled stock trains, in 1962. There certainly seemed to be an element of pride in these locos - they were rarely if ever really filthy, although they'd carry a level of road dirt associated with working vehicles. No 1 appears in quite typical condition for the time and those passengers don't look like enthusiasts which suggests that my surmise of the loco being on a special is probably incorrect.

img415a  Both Watford 10 Jan 61 - C Gooch - Copy - Copy.jpg img415b  Both Watford 10 Jan 61 - C Gooch.jpg

Brian
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
With apologies, Engineer, I failed to respond to your question. I've enlarged this image (of loco 16 at Uxbridge) up to the point where the pixels start to break up any coherent information and it's just not quite readable. As with so many of these images access to the original negatives would allow more detailed inspection, but it's not to be.

Brian
 
A

Arun

Guest
Brian said, "John Lyon" was withdrawn with most of the others on cessation of the loco hauled stock trains, in 1962. There certainly seemed to be an element of pride in these locos - they were rarely if ever really filthy, although they'd carry a level of road dirt associated with working vehicles. No 1 appears in quite typical condition for the time and those passengers don't look like enthusiasts which suggests that my surmise of the loco being on a special is probably incorrect"

Not quite so, Brian...... 1, 3, 5, 12 were kept in service a little later than the other locos that were withdrawn from passenger services in Sep 1961. No:5 was earmarked for the LT Museum collection and No 12 spent time justifying its existence working on brake block testing/leaf removing trains.
So at the date of the photograph, all nineteen surviving locos would still have been available for normal passenger service.
Some stations e.g., Moor Park were heavily modernised in the process of four-tracking north of Rickmansworth and no doubt others will know whether Watford needed modification to take 8car A60 trains.

Edited to add:

The Sep 1968 Ian Allan shows 1, 5 & 12 still in service stock at Neasden, Acton and Ealing Common respectively.
 
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