A West Midlands Works

[Scanlon]

Pushing out the rivets on the Fowler tank was a chore but this kit runs a very close second for the darned things. There are simply hundreds to push out, many in very tight formations, to give an example on the rear of the cab the returns for the handrails have 30 rivets a piece to push out! All on a piece of etch 34mm by 6mm. You have to love them!

That said this is turning into a lovely build. Forming the various curves for the front of the running plate and under the cab was simply achieved by using the body of a marker pen to create the right radius. The curve under the cab required annealing before it could be formed easily. All the etches are very crisp and the fit is superb.

With the running plate built up a start has been made on the cab. The sides are laminated together, the outer half etch having all the rivet detail, thank goodness. The inner wall is slightly smaller than the outer etch to allow for the cab front and for the returns on the back of the cab to be soldered in flush. The fit is perfect.

A start has been made on fitting out the cab. The floor is a somewhat complicated set of etches so this will be a job for the next time. The reverser is a superb lost wax casting made up of four parts.

All that horrible solder will eventually be hidden - honest!

So the loco now looks like this. The whitemetal smokebox saddle is just put in place for the photo and the running plate is "loose" on the frames,

Regards,
Roger

 

[P A D]

Hi Roger,
Looking good. I know what you mean about the rivets on the big LMS tanks. You've done both and now this. You must be a glutten for punishment! That said the Gladiator/David Andrews LMS kits do go together nicely and are a pleasure to build. I've got the Stanier Mogul waiting in the queue and that has a plethora of rivets also. Happy days ahead.
Cheers,
Peter

 

[Scanlon]

Fitting the cab floor was not quite as bad as I had expected and is made up of three parts which fit around the rear frame extensions. The floor around the base of the reverser required some alteration but by frequently checking progress during cutting and filing the floorboards eventually slide into place, the remaining floor was straightforward to install and also trapped the fallplate in place. The cupboard for the oil bottles etc. was also installed.

Today the basic firebox, boiler and smokebox assembly has been tackled. All the etches were straightforward to fit and each section has been bolted to the next. Prior to sealing the boiler a considerable amount of lead was added to it so hopefully this loco will live up to its class's reputation for prodigious haulage power.

The boiler assembly has been tried in the frames and the smokebox saddle requires some additional work to get it to sit snugly inside the frames. In addition the smokebox door ring which is a whitemetal casting is not an exact fit in the smokebox etch and some filling will be required to close up the small gaps that have appeared.

Now a plea for help. The 8F running plate has 5 oil boxes and 1 oiling tray on each side of the engine. The tray oils the pony truck slides, the oil boxes are for the hornguides and parts of the motion. Despite having a copy of No.8 LMS Locomotive Profiles, The Class 8F 2-8-0s none of the drawings clearly show the location of the majority of these oilers. The tray and oil box on the lower part of the frames under the smokebox saddle are clearly shown but not the remainder. Might someone happen to have a photo showing their exact position? I have found three photos on the net but they are from locos in preservation and taken from varying angles making final location a little tricky and a box may have been relocated.

I'd prefer to work from a pre preservation photo if possible.

 

[oldravendale]

I'll be along in a minute, Mr S.

Brian

 

[Scanlon]

I wanted to make sure the basic build of the boiler etc. fitted correctly in the frames so I have adjusted the smokebox saddle etches rather than leave it until tomorrow. It was slightly too wide but a bit of work with a file has got the structure to fit properly in the frames. This photo shows the boiler temporarily in place.

Minor adjustments will have to be made to the whitemetal saddle and then the boiler can be detailed prior to final installation.

 

[Scanlon]

Progress on 48369 has not been as advanced as I would have liked. In a previous post I mentioned the cast smokebox ring was not a snug fit in the smokebox etch. It had been lightly glued in place at the bottom of the ring so removing it seemed simple. Wrong! This was the result:


The area that was glued was fine but the three smaller pieces just fell off! The ever efficient and helpful Gladiator folks provided a new ring within days, thanks Dave and Trisha.

The smokebox etches were reduced to their component parts and about 1.5mm was removed from the wrapper by gentle filing. Trials were taken periodically and when the "perfect fit" was achieved the etch was soldered up again. The cast ring was then glued in place and left to set. After an hour or two the cast saddle was put onto the saddle without any glue or other fixing and using Hobbyhorse boiler straps I made sure the saddle was the same radius as that of the smokebox.

While all this was going on the boiler bands were added to the whole boiler assembly. It was then trial fitted into the running plate and the saddle casting glued in place. After that had cured the boiler and smokebox were finally assembled to the frames. A little detailing has been undertaken since then, the most prominent being the outside steampipe covers. These are made up of 5 etches each and were a trial but look very good.

Now serious detailing can take place and hopefully the loco could be ready in a month or so.

 

[Scanlon]

For the moment the 8F is a weekends only job while I get on with another project but the model is taking shape. The tasks I set myself for the last weekend were to build the cab roof, install oil pots and oil trays on the running plate and make a start on the sandbox shields and shutes.

In the kit there are whitemetal oil boxes which I have discarded and replaced with lost wax castings supplied by Ragstone, this is personal choice, no criticism intended. The two oiling trays at the front of the smokebox saddle are very thin affairs and I used three feed boxes filed down and with the middle feed removed to replicate them. On the running plate twin feed boxes are the norm. Locations were deduced from locos in preservation as I could not find a detailed photo of a pre preservation machine.

The cab roof was tricky to build up being formed from nine pieces ranging from the roof itself, a beautiful half etch to a pair of tiny long triangles for the rear support to the inside of the roof. The new instructions were excellent but required a lot of measuring and scribing to ensure the various parts were accurately lined up on the centre line within the inside of the roof.

The sandbox shields were straightforward to form up but I am not happy with them. This photo highlights that they are at odd angles despite being etched on the back of each of them with their specific location. Note the chimney, dome etc. are yet to be correctly fitted to the boiler.
Only the two exterior sandbox castings are provided in the kit and these have been glued in place. I have fashioned up four additional boxes to go inside the frames from spare castings in my whitemetal box.

 

[dibateg]

Trust a photo rather than the etch! You can always check the SVR's 8F!

Coming on nicely Roger.

Tony

 

[2-Bil]

RS....Possibly? an aid to what you require.......Page 5 Charlie Verralls albums Flickr.Apologies for not giving instant access to the site, I've yet to properly read through the "how to" helpful WTers kindly posted up for me a while ago.........Anyway, maybe the photos(all from back in the day )will be of use.............................David Christie Flickr ....Steam Railways from the 60s Album page 3 &6 has some good colour images too...............Regards etc Brian W

 

[Scanlon]

Hi Brian,
Thanks for the help and David Christie's photo of 48709 has confirmed the position of the oil pots on a pre preservation 8F for me. I've got it right!

Tony,
Using photos is the only way, the rear sandbox shute covers are incorrectly angled upright. I'll have to review how to give them an angle, rather tricky as they are behind the delivery pipes and the etch will require some alteration to get it right. Blast! The leading covers have been repositioned and now are correct, well that's half the battle!

Cheers
Roger

 

[Scanlon]

Detailing is continuing on the 8F albeit at a very slow pace. The hugely improved Gladiator build instructions had to my mind a rather over complicated proposal for installing the ejector and its exhaust pipe. I decided to drill the smokebox elbow and the ejector casting with a 1.7 mm drill and solder the ejector pipe between them. With this in place the handrails and reverser were fitted and then the live steam injector added. I had hoped to use a lost wax casting for this but could not find anything suitable. The whitemetal casting provided in the kit includes all the pipework and was a good representation of the real thing.

I had hoped to have installed the lubricators by now but I was unhappy with the castings. Thanks to Dave Sharp of MOK I have acquired a pair of their 8F lubricators so watch this space for the number of 0.5 drills I break.

The whitemetal exhaust injector casting has also been replaced by the MOK casting and will be installed shortly. So the model is really starting to look like an 8F.


Alongside the 8F I have been building another loco for a client who has asked me not to publish any details. This model has now been delivered, so with a nearly empty workbench I have started the next commission, a David Andrews Merchant Navy. As I have written at length about my previous build of this kit I'll try not to repeat myself too much. Unusually for me I have started building the engine rather than the tender and have got this far.


The build has been quite straightforward although the brake gear, like that on the real machines is a test of patience. Using the jigs provided in the kit makes this job easier but it still tests the patience of a saint. Please note only the rear pull rods have been fitted for the moment and the lower brake blocks have still to be correctly lined up and finally soldered up.

In the next few days detailing of the cylinders, slidebars and motion brackets will start. The model will be of 35004 Cunard White Star in 1964 condition with a fabricated pony truck.

Lastly at Telford Paul Moore returned my model of 34048 Crediton after working his magic with the spray gun.


The model has been lightly weathered, superb.

 

[Scanlon]

At Telford the remaining parts I wanted for the 8F were acquired and the final detailing could begin. This had reached a suitable stage when I decided to test the frame in its basic form on Heyside. I was concerned the pony truck would foul the frames but they passed first time. Instead issues with the smokebox saddle arose which could only be my mistake. Following discussions with fellow builders we came to only one conclusion, the boiler would have to come out with the loss of weeks worth of work.

Faced with getting out my ‘gas axe’ or throwing the model away a start was made to take the boiler out of the running plate. Off came the outside steam pipes and the sandbox shields and suddenly the saddle went back into position without removing the boiler! I could not believe my luck and quickly added some solder to ensure it would not move again. The steam pipes and sandbox shields were restored and completed the detailing. I’ve been very lucky. Last week the model ran perfectly through the pointwork on Heyside.

and

The model is now almost finished, just valve gear to add and the boiler backhead. The frames are currently with Ian Rathbone for him to spray and when returned the valve gear will be fitted then the whole model will go back to him for painting as 48369.

Work is now concentrated on the Merchant Navy which will be a model of 35004 Cunard White Star in 1964 condition. Construction of the cylinders, slidebars and motion brackets followed the usual David Andrews tried and tested method. Preparing the slidebars and crossheads required minimal filing to create a trouble free fore/aft action or so I thought. Setting up the fireman's side proved quite troublesome and took some time to achieve smooth running. Fortunately the driver's side went up without any problems! The frames have been tried on the test track and minor adjustment of the pony truck was required to achieve a level frame.

Attention has now turned to the tender and the frames constructed and tested satisfactorily.


A start has been made on building the tender and the basic body constructed, detailing will start shortly.

 

[P A D]

Hi Roger,
Looking at the 8F photo in the previous post it looks like the angled sides of the saddle is sitting about 1mm above the frames and now they are flush. I assume the steampipes or sandbox shields had been fixed too close and unbeknownst to you, had pushed up the boiler?????
It's a pretty soul destroying thing to discover so late so you must have bee very relieved when it dropped into place.

It looks very nice and I may have to trouble Mr. Gladiator for one I the future, although I have enough in the queue at the moment including his Stanier Mogul. Looking forward to the RB Merchant Navy which is o e of my favourites.

Cheers,
Peter

 

[Scanlon]

Hi Peter,
You got it in one! Just glad I hadn't photographed the other side which was what can only be described as horrible!!!!!
Cheers
Roger

 

[Scanlon]

At long last 8F 48369 is almost finished. A couple of weeks ago the frames went off to Ian Rathbone for painting. There is an interesting livery detail for the 8F, they do not have red inner frames, instead and according to the books the inner frames were red oxide. The frames came back and installing the wheels, pick-ups, rods and valve gear have been undertaken and finished today.

The valve gear in the Gladiator kit is quite "delicate" in that much of it is half etches or just one layer of etch. Great care was necessary to ensure nothing was bent during installation. All the holes for pins were drilled by hand using a 0.7 drill. I decided to follow the build instructions which suggested installing the expansion link and radius rod first, in the light of experience this created space issues when the valve crosshead and associated rods came to be fitted, but we got there.

The expansion link is a casting and this caused some problems for me, firstly with the connecting rods and the bottom of each link had to be thinned down quite considerably to create sufficient clearance. In addition the inner fixing point for the eccentric rod under the link interfered with the connecting rod. Eventually I removed that fixing point and fitted the eccentric rod to the remaining one. This created sufficient clearance for everything to work as intended.

The loco has been tested thoroughly on my test track at speeds no 8F should normally be run at. Nothing fell off or got tangled up so now comes the big test on Heyside next week. Providing all is well the loco will go back to Ian Rathbone for him to work wonders with a spray gun.

 

[Genghis]

Roger, looks good: well done!

Following Bob Alderman's helpful comments I am thinking of producing a supplementary etch for the valve gear so that builders can double up the etches as Bob did.

 

[Scanlon]

The Gladiator 8F is now on its way to the paint shop. Final niggles on the running front were quickly resolved and the last half etch details added to the return cranks.

The boiler backhead has been built up using parts from the Ragstone range. This is my personal choice but the various castings have greatly enhanced the overall appearance of the model.

Alongside the 8F work has continued with the David Andrews Merchant Navy. The running plate was carefully formed up using the deflectors to ensure the front end was correctly angled,

it was then detailed and the cab added. The resin boiler and firebox was prepared with minimal cleaning up required and trialled in place. The smokebox was then formed, built, put in place and the whole assembly temporarily put in place.

All was well and the whole unit finally fitted with 8 screws at the firebox end and a further 2 retaining the smokebox onto the front of the boiler. A very sturdy build was the result and the basic body was trialled on the frames and apart from minor fettling all was well. Prior to fitting the resin casting all the various fixing holes etc. were drilled to take their castings. At the time of writing only the clack valves and pipework remain to be fitted.

I always take great care with resin castings especially on a Bulleid where the ejector pipe and blower pipe have to be "inserted" into the cover on the firebox. Drilling out a short cavity was undertaken using a variety of drills from 0.8 to 1.4mm. The two "pipes" were first soldered together and formed to shape. Apart from the obvious S bend at the smokebox there is also a subtle bend just after the firebox. To ensure the pipes do not put any stress into the short cavity I filed down the inside of the ejector pipe and this also gave a snug fit against the firebox side, finally a slight chamfer on the end of the pipes gave a little wriggle room for fitting.

This photo shows some of the detailing in place together with the conduiting to the smokebox, still lots to do. The build has now reached this stage.

The tender is almost complete just the rear ladders to build and four castings to put in place.

 

[P A D]

Very nice Roger.
It's a great shame this kit is not readily available, but I see MOK may be re introducing the MN, although that has been the case for quite some time.
Cheer,
Peter

 

[Scanlon]

Earlier on in this thread I said that building an LNER prototype has eluded me. Well no more as I have a Blacksmiths Models GER/LNER/BR B16/1/2/or 3 to build. Unfortunately there are no build instructions with the kit and I hoping someone may be able to help me with a copy of them. My plan will be to build the loco in the 1923 condition with Belpaire firebox. Help please!

Meanwhile the Merchant Navy is progressing quite well and may be finished by the end of the month

There is minor detail still to be added including realignment to the front steps, photos can be so cruel. To clear the pony truck I had to slightly adjust the pipework at the injectors, only two pipes to modify but they were terrors!!! On the tender final detailing has to be completed before the last castings are put in place.

The largest amount of work outstanding is on the frames. The brakes are in-situ they have still to be lined up in the upper hangers and then the shoes adjusted to the wheels. It does not sound a lot but it will take hours. Then running trials on Heyside can be contemplated.

 

[7mmMick]

Hi Roger,

I can’t help with the instructions I’m afraid but I’m really looking forward to the build. The B16’s are a real favourite of mine, especially the rebuilds,

cheers

Mick