G3 - Another Neilson

Arty

Western Thunderer
Having produced some early items of rolling stock, that wouldn't look sensible behind a Ruston48DS, the hunt was on for something more likely.
An 0-4-0 Manning Wardle is a favourite and may well appear in due course, but a more immediate answer would be one of Spitfires Neilson tanks.
With some help and advice from Trevor, I've been collecting some parts. A few Shapeway 3d bits - mainly the awkward bits, chimney, cylinders, smokebox, firebox and some brass crossheads.
shape2.jpg
The best bit is the little velvet bag that protects the crossheads.
Also a large pile of laser cut steel parts turned up as well.

laser52.jpg

So I just couldn't wait to clean up some parts to see how it all goes together - very nicely in fact.

laser53.jpg

Lots more preparation - most of the platework, boiler, tank will be fabricated in n/s.

Richard
 

Jon Nazareth

Western Thunderer
Richard
Oo, that's all very tempting. I built one of these as a 5" gauge steamer following the series in Engineering in Miniature and have always liked the look of her. Problem is, I have too many projects on the go at the moment so, will have to pass this one by.

Jon
 

Spitfire2865

Western Thunderer
Hey Richard, great to see you documenting, but be warned, youve mixed up the chassis frames.
The right side frame has an extra hole towards the rear guard iron for the reverser pivot. Would be an awkward thing to drill out once assembled. I almost made the same mistake.
Plus when the front is soldered together you can cut that thin crosspiece in the footplate between the wheels. Its main purpose is to prevent spreading before assembly.

I look forward to seeing your take on it with your scratched superstructure.

Enjoy the fitting of the valences. I resorted to a hammer and some "gentle" persuasion to get all those tabs lined up.
 

Arty

Western Thunderer
Hi Trevor, the frames are both the same - no extra hole. It doesn’t matter really because this will be the later GE build, so there are a few differences, brake standard position and I suspect the reverser may be different.
I have to add a few holes for brake hangers etc, but I’ve only test fitted things so far, not quite ready for final assy.

Richard
 

Arty

Western Thunderer
Started doing some of the fiddly bits, buffers and buffer beam/plank ?
Although the majority of these engines carried dumb buffers, N0 7230/8081 had parallel sided stocked GE buffers.
The buffer beams were laminated with a wooden centre between steel faces.
I managed to locate some 4mm oak sheet and drilled through the holes provided in the laser cut beams to accept 14ba hex bolts.

buff11.jpg
I also wanted to contain the buffer springing within the beam, so some GE buffers were purchasd from Walsall Model Industries and "improved" with 12ba fixing bolts and the rear counterbored to conceal the rear of the buffer tail and nut.

buff4.jpg
buff6.jpg

After making the spacing pads from Delrin, they fitted quite nicely on the buffer beam with the overhang on the top face.

bb2.jpg
Just the rear one to do next, and Ive only lost one 14ba nut so far.
 

Spitfire2865

Western Thunderer
Rich, I know your distaste for all the hardware, however I must ask, why are all the bolts with the head on the outside? From the photos Ive seen, both Neilson and GER built, the nuts were on the outside with a bit of thread sticking out. Unless of course 7230 was built differently.
 

Arty

Western Thunderer
I love all sorts of hardware - nuts, bolts, rivets & washers Trevor.
The bolts are just pushed through to make sure all the holes line up, I’ve not put any nuts on - it’s all got to come apart again.
I must say I’ve not really thought which way round they would be fitted, I guess it would be the only way to assemble the real laminate with the bolts fitted from the rear.
The prints I have are very indistinct regarding the nut/bolt head, but I’m sure you’re right.
Did they have washers under the nuts ?
 

Spitfire2865

Western Thunderer
I love all sorts of hardware - nuts, bolts, rivets & washers Trevor.
The bolts are just pushed through to make sure all the holes line up, I’ve not put any nuts on - it’s all got to come apart again.
I must say I’ve not really thought which way round they would be fitted, I guess it would be the only way to assemble the real laminate with the bolts fitted from the rear.
The prints I have are very indistinct regarding the nut/bolt head, but I’m sure you’re right.
Did they have washers under the nuts ?
I dont believe washers were fitted to the headstocks. As its a steel plate, little risk of digging in.
Now that I look at the GER photos from the article, it looks like rivets. Not sure why rivets would be chosen considering the wood may rot and need replacing.
I couldve sworn I had seen photos with nuts somewhere. Cant find it now.
 

Arty

Western Thunderer
I've always used washers under nuts, but in completely different applications. What railway engine manufacturers used in this application at the end of the 19th century - who knows. Maybe to lock the nuts in place they may have peened over the end of the threads, which may give the appearance of rivets.
I can't find a clear enough view to confirm bolthead or nut on 7320.
But I did find images of Neilson saddletank/Manning Wardle/Avonsidebuffer beam detail which shows hex bolt heads ?

neilsonbuff1.jpg
manningbuff1.jpg
avosidebuff1.jpg
 

Peter Insole

Western Thunderer
I have found a similar puzzle on my big little Horwich engine!

There are several perfectly normal looking rivets on the running plates and headstocks that when viewed from behind or underneath (on the prototype, not my model!) reveal that they are nothing of the sort. They are threaded and nutted.

Coach bolts - of course!

I can only assume that the holes in the steel plate work had keyways cut out in order to lock the round headed ends in place?

After looking at some of my reference pics I have found one of a flitch plated timber headstock on a GER locomotive, clearly showing plain round heads outermost. Another pic of similar vintage shows nuts to the rear face.

The bolts could only be freely driven home by swinging a hammer from the outside anyway?

Also, rivets need to be fairly short and stumpy as well as red hot in order to be properly hammered over, so it would never have been a very good idea to try inserting one through any sort of timber - unless a heap of charcoal was desired that is...?!

I hope this helps?

Pete.
 

Arty

Western Thunderer
Thank you Peter for your thoughts.
Doing a bit more digging, here's a Neilson built Spanish broad gauge loco - coach bolts I think.

neilsonbuff2.jpg

And a better quality version of 7230 - coach bolt most likely ?

7230buff1.jpg
 

Jon Nazareth

Western Thunderer
Trevor
You can buy 14BA bolts/screws with a domed head from Items Mail Order. I have a some in stock but they are too big for general use where I mainly use 16BA nuts and a brass rivet.

Jon
 

Spitfire2865

Western Thunderer
Trevor
You can buy 14BA bolts/screws with a domed head from Items Mail Order. I have a some in stock but they are too big for general use where I mainly use 16BA nuts and a brass rivet.
Jon
Do you have any contact details. Googling them brings up nothing but an address. Not even a phone number, not that that would help me at all anyway. Email would be my only means of contact.
 
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