Breaking Ground - Finescale - of a sort

[Brian McKenzie]

Oooh, not in agreement here! I do agree that Pete needs a flange that won’t touch the railhead at minimum track radius, but I think a generous radius between flange and tread is crucial!

Yes, the largest radius fillet that can be obtained is very desirable to help combat Peter's sharp curve corner.

Using these wheel dimensions Breaking Ground - Finescale - of a sort laid out to a wagon wheelbase estimated at 6 inches, and the manufacturer's profile of rail drawn at 5ft track radius, a 3D study was prepared. This showed that when the flange was scrubbing along the curvature of the rail, it left a gap between the tyre's root radius and the head of the rail (which has radiused edges).

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-Brian M

 

[Osgood]

Ok Pete - you’re going to need a big round bastard file and a steady hand

Whilst I think that in practice the nylon wagon wheels, running independently on a fixed axle, will simply skoot around the bend so long as the angle prevents any flange side - rail head contact (other than at the rail/flange interface - where the radius should be) there is simply no defence against the compelling evidence shown above that the root radius effectively starts to lift the wheel up off the rail from a line contact onto a point contact, thus minimising friction.

And the radius would be noticeably more beneficial with the loco wheels that are fixed to the axles than the wagons that run free on their axles and thus will not scrub.

Now get filing (If you have an extended siesta could you not do a 10pm - 4am shift in the machine shop cellar?).

 

[Peter Insole]

Oh, what can I say to both night owls, Brian and Tony - and not forgetting Simon too?! I cannot thank you all enough for taking so much time and trouble to help a fool with his folly!

Please believe me in saying that while I am ashamed and embarrassed to be proven so woefully wrong, I am trying to appreciate the correction - for after all, that is the whole point about learning!

The information, so generously provided, has given me much to think about, but has also shifted the game rather a long way beyond any of my own bodging abilities!

I'm afraid I can't even do a late shift either these days - One of the penalties of small, terraced, town houses is living in such close proximity with a neighbour to the North who is on nights, the other, Southerner, is not, and in the middle, a dear lady wife that already has quite enough trouble putting up with me - all the bloody time!

Pete.

 

[Overseer]

Can I disagree? Small narrow gauge wagon wheels on contractors wagons rarely had any significant radius between the tread and the flange. A trip to Leighton Buzzard might be worthwhile to look at the range of profiles used. Quite different to main line railways and longer narrow gauge railways. I think adding the radius will make the wagons more likely to derail on this railway. The loose wheels completely change the way the wheels interact with the rails.

 

[Peter Insole]

What a day! I seem to have been flitting about, but nonetheless managed to keep a couple of jobs going!

While waiting for my workshop "window", I hung some more of the primed daggerboards...



I only discovered that the canopy frames had warped slightly when it came to fitting the corners. I will screw a pair of small, metal angles on the inside, hopefully to persuade the gaps to close. A bit of an untidy solution, but as I have observed, quite prototypical.

Later, I was able to complete the second experimental wheelset for the tender/driving truck. As the threatened storms are yet to materialise, the folks went off galivanting, so I had to lug the engine over the road on my own - It was worth the effort for a full and proper testing session!

I even had to deliver a cup of "builders" to myself...



I was amazed that there was barely a ripple for the entire journey!



Although so much resistance has now been eliminated, the engine continues to wiggle when reversing on that curve. The rear drivers are still trying to climb, and I remain convinced that, while I am unable to do anything about the root radii for the time being, harder springs on the leading axle would go some way towards reducing the problem.



I now know the profiles are not right - and neither has the job been done very neatly - but they do look a damned sight better than what went before!

Most importantly though, and with full acknowledgement of everyone's invaluable help, the little engine will actually pull a load around that ridiculously tight and utterly implausible curve!

I couldn't quite believe it myself - and had to keep on going backwards and forwards over it, again and again, just to prove it!

Pete.

 

[Peter Insole]

Thank you too Overseer for your reply, and also for reminding me about the Leighton Buzzard Railway.

I am henceforth shifting into full-blown, nagging mode, with the wicked intent of persuading someone that the grandchildren would undoubtedly enjoy an afternoon there at the same time!!

Pete.

 

[Osgood]

The vertical boarding of the sloping canopy sides looks wonderful!

 

[Peter Insole]

Thank you Tony. I had been rather concerned that such a scaled down valence might look a bit "twee" when finally installed, but I was pleasantly surprised that the resulting effect, strangely, does seem to make the station building appear to be somewhat larger than it actually is!

I am really looking forward to installing decorative mouldings along the upper edges, and then applying a proper, "Light Stone" top coat! Before that can happen, I must get back out there, and do the mucky job of priming more of those boards!

Pete.

 

[Peter Insole]

I forgot to take pictures during the painting job, so couldn't show an image in the last reply posting!

After doing some preliminary "knotting" this morning, I thought I would demonstrate why I can only do 18 boards at a time...



I could only find three of my metal toast racks from a previously larger collection. They were originally acquired at the time I was batch building 16mm scale carriages, and proved to be absolutely ideal for holding multiple, pre-painted/varnished carriage compartment interior panels, partitions, etc.

The racks being of particularly slender construction means that all points of contact are very small - and when left on the edges of components, are usually either hidden completely, or at least barely noticeable on the finished product!

Pete.

 

[Peter Insole]

Rain has stopped play, but I'm not complaining! Lovely, cool stuff coming down - and the best bit is that the garden soil will be a lot less than an imitation of concrete for a couple of days! I will be able to get back to the dig!

I have decided to take a bit of a risk, and lay the next section of the loop from the junction points, leading back towards the top curve. I would still have a tricky job getting the alignments correct, wherever I choose to close the loop anyway. The gradients are an additional problem, but at least laying this section with conventional sleepers in ballast will allow a bit of leeway. It might just mean that the summit of the line does not end up precisely where anticipated. Using water in a length of clear tube to measure the levels probably would be a good idea, but when looking at the site, the extra bit of faff would seem to be a touch of overkill?! Whatever, the main thinking behind my decision is to use the main line temporarily as a short spur or siding, primarily to provide a means of shifting the not inconsiderable amount of spoil yet to be removed.

The first rails, and a new batch of sleepers have been cut, ready for assembly, but before picking up the mattock, a niggling issue has been preying on my mind...



It might not be that obvious in the above image, but there is a slightly awkward flattening of the curve at the lead-in to the points.

When I constructed them last year, I had taken great care to measure and mark out a constant curvature. Unfortunately, I had previously misjudged the approach alignment on the pathway section, with slightly too sharp an inward turn of the boundary bricks and rails, and this effected the final placement of the points. The error may have been marginal, and not caused any running problems, but the visual irregularity, especially when seen from a distance, had been really bugging me ever since! The thought of having to get down and dirty on the ground to correct it, what with so many other things to do, was a little too daunting.

Yesterday, I realised that once the new formation was set and rails laid on the branch, any chance of future adjustment would be significantly more complicated, so resolved myself to deal with it!



Once the top layer of large ballast had been sufficiently scraped out, I was able to jiggle the points back into the originally intended position!

Well, what a difference!




While it might only be a mere few millimetres, there will be some more work to re-set a couple of path fixings, and re-align the adjacent edging bricks for a neater appearance.

The latter task will be just a little bit easier as a result of the rain as well, although I am quite happy to wait until the grass dries out first!

Pete.

 

[Peter Insole]

Apologies for the posting hiatus, but the last seven days have been, to put it mildly, a bit of a slog. Progress had been agonisingly slow in the terrific heat, and besides, just how many pictures of baked clay being chiselled out of the ground could you all tolerate anyway?!

The essential branch spur may be only two and a half metres of line, but it has felt more like ten to lay it!

Getting to use the points for the very first time, albeit for manually shunted ballast workings, was a very satisfying highlight though:



Admittedly, ensuring that the curves and the projecting angle of the branch was set at a constant gradient and alignment, as well as a firm desire to avoid having to move an extremely heavy and well bedded concrete line post, let alone disturbing Mr. O's planting area too much, conspired to add a significant degree of complication.



Tom strolled up yesterday afternoon as a perfectly innocent visitor, and promptly found himself volunteering for some hard labour:



His efforts provided a most welcome boost towards the goal of getting the final panel laid by the close of play that day, and it's ultimately successful conclusion!



There are still some adjustments, fishplating and trimming to do...

and then the final, hefty and backbreaking earth moving job can commence!

Pete.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

On completion of the loop will the first train around break through a banner?

Or be a simple 'Golden Spike' ceremony....

 

[Peter Insole]

The first thing I will probably do is just collapse in a heap - after all, there are more than enough of them around the garden now!

I don't need much excuse for a touch of melodrama though, so yes Dave, I'm afraid I will not be able to resist some form of ceremony! The only troubling thought is; who gets the honour of being the first to drive all the way round? I do hope there won't be any airborne soothers emanating from anyone's manual mobility devices?

Anyway, today was something of a steady, pottering one, but the spur is at least complete now, and ready for service!



Four driver's-eye views along the lines as a tempter!

I might take a brief rest from the navvying job, and get back to the somewhat gentler tasks of the station building?!

Pete.

 

[Tom Insole]

Great work on the final shlap of rail to the mound. It was well under way when I left to go make a visit to Uncle's for the evening and I was very glad to have been able to say I did a little bit towards the works.

I am thoroughly looking forward to the weekend when hopefully all the children will get their chance to see the developments that have happened since the last visit..
It's been a while since seeing the little loco out on the line so that will also be a little treat to behold. (able bodied and ready to help with the lift across the road to the station.

Looking forward to seeing you Sunday.
Enjoy the rest dad!

Tom.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

It's been a while since seeing the little loco out on the line so that will also be a little treat to behold. (able bodied and ready to help with the lift across the road to the station.

Couldn't you just lay the temporary plastic rails across the road and drive the loco across - or a slow Wallace and Gromit style and lay the rails in front of you as you drive the loco across the road........and picking them up from behind the loco during the traverse.......

 

[Peter Insole]

Ah yes Dave - Wallace and Gromit style might just work, except for one slightly awkward problem:

I doubt I could reach sufficient speed in accomplishing the operation!

While we might live in what some might regard as "a nice and quiet" district, our local "Grumpies" (every neighbourhood may have at least one of them?!) always uncannily manage to come up or down the road at every inopportune moment - indeed, they rarely seem make an appearance at any other times!

Having managed to cut through our local clay, Tarmac should be a breeze by comparison - especially during this bout of hot weather, where I am sure that even dragging a stick across the top dressing might be all that is required to create tramlines?!

Pete.

 

[mickoo]

Ah yes Dave - Wallace and Gromit style might just work, except for one slightly awkward problem:

I doubt I could reach sufficient speed in accomplishing the operation!

While we might live in what some might regard as "a nice and quiet" district, our local "Grumpies" (every neighbourhood may have at least one of them?!) always uncannily manage to come up or down the road at every inopportune moment - indeed, they rarely seem make an appearance at any other times!

Having managed to cut through our local clay, Tarmac should be a breeze by comparison - especially during this bout of hot weather, where I am sure that even dragging a stick across the top dressing might be all that is required to create tramlines?!

Pete.

About that tunnel you were talking about earlier ......

 

[Peter Insole]

I am really rather excited today - in fact, positively fizzing! Another project is underway!

It will of course require it's own thread, but I will start with some images here - on the general railway construction site:



This is by no means pioneering, as the principals have already been proven by someone else. I just needed to see if it was a practical proposition on our own railway, and that among other things, there would be no serious clearance issues anywhere along the line.

A simple plan-form mock-up, knocked up and mounted on Rich's bogies, was pushed up and down from end to end... and it goes!



The dimensions represent the overall planform at the roofline, whereas the chassis and counter would be a bit narrower - so there should be plenty of room for the shrubbery!

It turned out to be a bit tight at the wall though, but increasing the wheelbase by a couple of inches should help. For this test-bed, the WB was only estimated - as that particular dimension wasn't specified.



I just got incredibly lucky with my first guess!

Now the design work can begin - with a fairly high degree of confidence.

I am thinking along the lines of a vehicle that incorporates as many features of something like this gorgeous beast:


(copyright image shown here for illustrative purposes only)

or maybe a nice, big, green, Grimsby and Immingham - former Gateshead bogie car - with windscreens - would be a tempting subject too?!

Naturally, ours would have to be adapted to carry overscale passengers, but with a maximum width of 1ft.-8ins., and a healthy 7ft. length, there should be just enough room to squeeze three cosily on board?!

Well, a Motorman, Conductor and one passenger anyway!

Pete.

 

[michael mott]

And another great project getting started, a lovely looking prototype. I will be following along for sure.
Michael

 

[Osgood]

Phew - I thought that was a hoverboard for a moment